Finding the lands without any tools.

[jimmymac]

You are correct. It is just a reference, but I want to know exactly where that touch point is to the best of my measuring capability. It matters to me because I am invested in numerous barrels using the same reamer, same powder and the same bullets. Target history tells me that my best seating depth from barrel to barrel does not change much, so finding the lands short cuts my process when I screw on a new barrel. I do a quick check before I ever screw it on, look at my notes from previous barrels and start off with an educated guess on seating depth. When I do it this way, I seldom chase my tail looking for a load because I am already close to the sweet spot.

 

[jimmymac]

I have posted this target before, but it gets right to the heart of the matter in knowing exactly where my touch point is. This is the first nine shots on a new 30BR barrel on a brand new gun with zero rounds on it. This is a bore sight target I set up at 100 yards. I put the orange dot in the middle of the target to provide myself an aim point reference as I looked through the bore.

Shot one hit right and low. Dialed a scope change. Shots 2 and 3 hit closer to the mark. Cleaned the barrel. Dialed a small scope change. #4 looked good, so I shot a 5 shot group right next to it and this was the result. None of that would have been possible without finding the lands and using past history to dictate a seating depth to start with. They don't all go as smooth as this, but it happens.

 

[AlNyhus]

I have posted this target before, but it gets right to the heart of the matter in knowing exactly where my touch point is. This is the first nine shots on a new 30BR barrel on a brand new gun with zero rounds on it. This is a bore sight target I set up at 100 yards. I put the orange dot in the middle of the target to provide myself an aim point reference as I looked through the bore.

Shot one hit right and low. Dialed a scope change. Shots 2 and 3 hit closer to the mark. Cleaned the barrel. Dialed a small scope change. #4 looked good, so I shot a 5 shot group right next to it and this was the result. None of that would have been possible without finding the lands and using past history to dictate a seating depth to start with. They don't all go as smooth as this, but it happens.

Jim, that's a great example that should be all any shooter needs to follow.

Why shooters over-complicate  or reduce the accuracy/repeatability of such an important tenant....that's one of the fundamentals of on-target accuracy....remains a mystery to me.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[JFrank]

I shared this earlier but I’ll mention it again just to build the community.
PMA has a little tool that holds the dummy round by the extractor groove, allowing a fella to easily find touch without stripping the bolt or pulling the barrel ( my favorite btw ) just seat a bullet slightly long ( same as a stripped bolt) and reduce a thou or so at a time until the bullet doesn’t stick at all.
Pat suggests the last number prior to zero resistance is exact touch point. Either way is a terrific little toy to keep in your cleaning or range kit without having pins or springs flying across the room or into the gravel.
Jim

 

[jimmymac]

I shared this earlier but I’ll mention it again just to build the community.
PMA has a little tool that holds the dummy round by the extractor groove, allowing a fella to easily find touch without stripping the bolt or pulling the barrel ( my favorite btw ) just seat a bullet slightly long ( same as a stripped bolt) and reduce a thou or so at a time until the bullet doesn’t stick at all.
Pat suggests the last number prior to zero resistance is exact touch point. Either way is a terrific little toy to keep in your cleaning or range kit without having pins or springs flying across the room or into the gravel.
Jim

Never used that tool, but it sounds simple enough Jim. With the barrel on, all I have used is the Wheeler method with good results.

This is what I use every time I swap out a barrel. It could not be easier. I can grab any barrel off the shelf and combine it with any bullet from any manufacturer and get to the answer in less than a minute. @gunsandgunsmithing hit a home run with this one IMO. I also use a Wilson/Sinclair seater die which allows me to work the numbers against the tool. That enables me to dial the die to my desired seating depth on the first try give or take a thou. Easy button.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Never used that tool, but it sounds simple enough Jim. With the barrel on, all I have used is the Wheeler method with good results.

This is what I use every time I swap out a barrel. It could not be easier. I can grab any barrel off the shelf and combine it with any bullet from any manufacturer and get to the answer in less than a minute. @gunsandgunsmithing hit a home run with this one IMO. I also use a Wilson/Sinclair seater die which allows me to work the numbers against the tool. That enables me to dial the die to my desired seating depth on the first try give or take a thou. Easy button.

Same reamer same machinist really helps make it all simple.

 

[tom]

Luckily not all things errode at such a rate, but my last 2 wsm barrels have moved a little over 50 thousanths in their lifespan. So while I agree it is a "reference", I also find that reference and write it down each time I clean the barrel. Once we have that knowledge, we can shoot a target to gain the more important knowledge. Below is how I attack that for my purposes. A couple times getting the exact same results will then allow me to just roll with it!

Tom

 

[JFrank]

@tom
Damn it that beast eats barrels. At least it shoots great!!

My little 6 has only eroded .004 in 828 rounds…

 

[tom]

@tom
Damn it that beast eats barrels. At least it shoots great!!

My little 6 has only eroded .004 in 828 rounds…

That sounds about right, and our limited ppc experience says even less yet. No clue on something like a 30 BR. I think this is exactly why different conclusions are drawn on this subject. It really does boil down to knowing exactly where you're at, and a hunk of paper.

Tom

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

That sounds about right, and our limited ppc experience says even less yet. No clue on something like a 30 BR. I think this is exactly why different conclusions are drawn on this subject. It really does boil down to knowing exactly where you're at, and a hunk of paper.

Tom

Yeah, a 30br is probably along the lines of 1/5th of a 6br. At least estimating by average bbl life. The go and go.

 

[dellet]

One of probably most important things about finding the lands and using a common tool to do that, is helping others.

The best thing about the Hornady gauge is that it is very available. Any reasonably stocked store with reloading supplies will have one. I can’t count the number of times over the years that I’ve been able to help someone because in the grand scheme of things .005” isn’t all that much. Being able to have the same tool, same insert, as inconsistent as they are, it’s much easier if both people are using the same tool when “comparing” measurements.

Since the same basic tooling can be used for headspace.

There are plenty of better tools and a few worse for the job, but if you think you might need or provide help trouble shooting a problem, using a tool that is common and offers a reasonably consistent measurement from multiple users, isn’t a bad idea.

 

[RB64]

PMA Tool . Around 20$

 

[RabbitSlayer]

I do it like speedy.
Pull the barrel.

I did this last time with a new barrel and it worked good.

If i am not willing to pull the barrel like maybe trying a new bullet, I just find the hard jam using cortinas method. Seat it long and cover the bullet with sizing wax so it won't stick. Then close the bolt a couple times. I seat another one .020 shorter and cover it with sharpie. I measure before, close and open the bolt a couple times and verify the round did not get longer. Look at the sharpie just for an idea how far in the lands it is. From there, the only direction to go is shorter for seating depth testing.

Part of me likes my gun with a short mag. Just barely get it to fit in the mag and you are done!