Finding the lands without any tools.

[muleystalker]

It seems to me that the same thing can be done by loading the cartridge too long and then slowly seat the bullet until the bolt closes.

This would be easier with a micrometer bullet seating screw. Do 0.10, then 0.05, etc.

"Touch", is pretty subjective. I use this modified case that pinches the bullet lightly enough that it will slide in the neck but be held firmly enough to measure with calipers. I keep one of these in every die box, and log a OAL, for each bullet I'm trying. I have drilled out the primer pocket so I can re-set it easily and take three or four measures to get a good average, I'd say my degree of accuracy is +/- .001" jd
View attachment 1745520

I use a modified case just like this.Works great

 

[Paddyd]

You're jamming the bullet by doing it that way. The problem is you don't know how far you're jamming it without knowing your touch measurement. Touch is supposed to be the ogive of the bullet barely kissing the lands. Doing it that way, I'd wager you're probably touch + .020 easily

Not jamming anything at all. Very gently easing the bullet forward til I feel touch. With my Savage, I take the barrel off and do it Speedy's way, by dropping a round in and feel for a sticky bullet, but that isnt practical on my M70. So...

 

[SKWERLZ]

I do it like speedy.
Pull the barrel.

 

[Ackman]

"Touch", is pretty subjective. I use this modified case that pinches the bullet lightly enough that it will slide in the neck but be held firmly enough to measure with calipers. I keep one of these in every die box, and log a OAL, for each bullet I'm trying. I have drilled out the primer pocket so I can re-set it easily and take three or four measures to get a good average, I'd say my degree of accuracy is +/- .001" jd
View attachment 1745520

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Mike TackleBerry]

While I won't disagree that doing it that way isn't jamming the bullet.
I really think that you may have misplaced the decimal mark.

I'd go with 0.002-0.005".

Copper is soft, yeah. But not that soft.

I've seated and shot bullets at + .020 jam before. It's not hard to do at all, and it depends on how much pressure he's using with the rod. Also, it matters what type of bullet you're using. With Berger VLD, it's very easy to jam them in because of their secant ogive.

 

[antunRC]

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I like knowing exactly where touch is. Reason is when you know a reamer it will usually like the same jam or jump. Example, just did a ppc barrel and told him the load. He shot 2, 5 shot powder charges, .1 apart. Higher one was a mid .1s without flags. Hes basicly done. Without that exact touch point knowledge you have to do more testing. Its just nice, but not necessary.

 

[Multiracer]

I do it like speedy.
Pull the barrel.

Some of his vids he does not remove the barrel Load a dummy .040 long , close the bolt on the dummy round lifting the bolt swiftly. Measure the round, load .020 short of that number and go up or down from there with the same powder load to find the node. he does not care where the lands are and neither does your load.

 

[chop house]

I like knowing exactly where touch is. Reason is when you know a reamer it will usually like the same jam or jump. Example, just did a ppc barrel and told him the load. He shot 2, 5 shot powder charges, .1 apart. Higher one was a mid .1s without flags. Hes basicly done. Without that exact touch point knowledge you have to do more testing. Its just nice, but not necessary.

Question: does this only apply to using the same bbl blanks, or does it also hold true even for different manufacturers, and/or different material (Cm vs stnls) from same maker? Thanks for all the info you share with us, by the way!

 

[antunRC]

Question: does this only apply to using the same bbl blanks, or does it also hold true even for different manufacturers, and/or different material (Cm vs stnls) from same maker? Thanks for all the info you share with us, by the way!

Depends on bore diameter, number of grooves...

 

[Tesoro]

If you plan on monitoring throat erosion - best for you to just buy a new Hornady tool for 40 bucks because you will be doing it often.

 

[AlNyhus]

Tom Peterson, the original designer of the Stoney Point 'Chamber-All' (now known as the Hornady Lock-N-Load OAL tool) told me that the difference between the measured 'touch' distance with that tool would be from .010-.015  shorter than the true touch point....for consumer safety.

I broke out my original 'Chamber-All' tool today and used it in one of my 30BR barrels. Then did my normal 'Touch Point/Wheeler Method'.

T.P./'Wheeler Method: 1.642"
Chamber-All Method: 1.631"

Pushing as hard as I could on the rod on the Chamber-All, the most I could get was 1.633". By the way, the original rods were aluminum, not the current plastic ones.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Sigfla]

Tom Peterson, the original designer of the Stoney Point 'Chamber-All' (now known as the Hornady Lock-N-Load OAL tool) told me that the difference between the measured 'touch' distance with that tool would be from .010-.015  shorter than the true touch point....for consumer safety.

I broke out my original 'Chamber-All' tool today and used it in one of my 30BR barrels. Then did my normal 'Touch Point/Wheeler Method'.

T.P./'Wheeler Method: 1.642"
Chamber-All Method: 1.631"

Pushing as hard as I could on the rod on the Chamber-All, the most I could get was 1.633". By the way, the original rods were aluminum, not the current plastic ones.

Good shootin' -Al

I wish the current rods were aluminum or steel and a better tolerance fit. It’s enough of a pain to remove my ejector and FP much less removing the barrel to find the lands…. I just want a precision machined tool. I don’t mind paying for it. I wish there was something with a dial micrometer at the bolt end that could measure the point the lands start putting pressure on the bullet. Even better would be something that measures in place of the firing pin while the bolt is closed.

 

[AlNyhus]

I wish the current rods were aluminum or steel and a better tolerance fit.

It wouldn't be a biggie to use a piece of drill rod for the push rod. Add a nylon thumb screw so you don't scuff up the new rod. -Al

 

[D Coots]

If you plan on monitoring throat erosion - best for you to just buy a new Hornady tool for 40 bucks because you will be doing it often.

I use a piece of paper for a tool. That one with the holes in it. Never lies.

Later

Dave

 

[msalm]

Since I chamber my own barrels, I’ll take a piece of the cutoff, turn cylindrical/parallel if the muzzle end (before parting off barrel end), square both ends and run the chamber reamer up to the shoulder/body junction. First measure your sized case inserted in gage w/ your dial caliper from case head to end of tool, then seat a bullet a bit too long and measure that. You now have an exact measurement (difference of two measurements) of how far the bullet would jam. Easy enough w/ a micrometer seater to dial that down to .010” jam, just touching, or whatever jump you want.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Some of his vids he does not remove the barrel Load a dummy .040 long , close the bolt on the dummy round lifting the bolt swiftly. Measure the round, load .020 short of that number and go up or down from there with the same powder load to find the node. he does not care where the lands are and neither does your load.

If he doesn’t care where the lands are why is he finding out where the lands are?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I like knowing exactly where touch is. Reason is when you know a reamer it will usually like the same jam or jump. Example, just did a ppc barrel and told him the load. He shot 2, 5 shot powder charges, .1 apart. Higher one was a mid .1s without flags. Hes basicly done. Without that exact touch point knowledge you have to do more testing. Its just nice, but not necessary.

I agree. The explanation is long but yeah, it happens often and I usually start load work up based on known load data for a given chamber reamer because of it. But it's not always the case and often benefits a bit from a little tweaking of the load, too. Still a good place to start when you're familiar with a chamber. Just a little tweak of the tuner will typically do the job too. It's just tough to say that you're getting ALL the potential from a gun until ya do a full load workup is all, but it can get all or very close to it, more often than not when the gun is built similarly. At the very least, it gets you very close and small adjustments may or may not be needed from there.

 

[Pete Wass]

I don't know why folks would want to use any tools to find touch, just do it the way Alex does it. Adding tools can complicate things. I had been almost to completely the same as Alex except I still left FEEL involved. Feel isn't the same for everyone and perhaps differs from day to day for everyone. Hard to feel .oo5". A very important part is making sure the case one uses freely goes into the chamber. Cases that are a little snug near the base can throw one off. Me, I want absolutes and reliable benchmarks, if I can get them. Does .001" matter on paper? Perhaps not but that isn't the point really, for me at least.

Also makes a difference how big the target is one is shooting for.

 

[Pete Wass]

Yep.

I use a piece of paper for a tool. That one with the holes in it. Never lies.

Later

Dave

It DOES always get down to this.