Finding the lands without any tools.

[ELR LVR]

Close, .... but actually use two stop collars on the rod. Lock the second one from the muzzle on the bolt face (not the firing pin!). And lock the first one on the bullet. Measure between them.
If you have trouble figuring how much to tap the bullet in, use one of these to get repeatability on your 'push' rather than tapping. The insertion force gauge is like a trigger pull scale that works in reverse. Oh, and put a blunt jag on the rod, or just use 0.187 stock from the shop that has benn faced off, not just sheared.View attachment 1746415

2 Stop Collars, Perfect idea ! That would be a nice addition to refine it
The hardware store sells nylon bolts that wouldnt damage the cleaning rod
Or McMaster I think has Nylon tipped set screws also
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The Insertion force gauge is also a Great Idea !
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keep in mind when I tap the base of the bullet, its not like Im getting a foot back and running at it
I push the rod against the base to feel where it is, then maybe tap lightly from 1/4 to 1/2 inch away
perhaps 2 light taps
it gets lodged in easy enough to where you have to tap it back out from the front when youre done
but not lodged so hard it even dents the meplat when you lightly tap the front to get it back out

 

[Paddyd]

It seems to me that the same thing can be done by loading the cartridge too long and then slowly seat the bullet until the bolt closes.

This would be easier with a micrometer bullet seating screw. Do 0.10, then 0.05, etc.

That works well to, but very tedious.

 

[AlNyhus]

Not to argue or disagree at all but my findings were exactly opposite. Once I began using the Wheeler method it was plain as day that I was jamming far more with the L & L device than the Wheeler method was giving me.

Morning, Bill. Yes...that just shows how hard it is to compare stuff. The leade angle, bullet ogive and bullet diameter all play into this.

The main thing, for me anyway, is to have a reference that repeats and that I can go back to as a baseline.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Bill Norris]

Morning, Bill. Yes...that just shows how hard it is to compare stuff. The leade angle, bullet ogive and bullet diameter all play into this.

The main thing, for me anyway, is to have a reference that repeats and that I can go back to as a baseline.

Good shootin' -Al

Agree 100%

 

[Orr89rocz]

On the long loaded bullets being worked in, you cans scotch-brite the bullet each time to remove the groove marks. When the slightest mark is gone your in the touch area.

I use sharpie marker and it always leaves a nice land mark. I found on my latest rifle that i can jam .080… i seated long and was able to force close bolt and it wasnt until roughly 80 thousandths off that the marker stopped getting marked up by lands. I was surprised.

 

[Tesoro]

I use sharpie marker and it always leaves a nice land mark. I found on my latest rifle that i can jam .080… i seated long and was able to force close bolt and it wasnt until roughly 80 thousandths off that the marker stopped getting marked up by lands. I was surprised.

I assume you locktite yr bullet in case neck n let it sit overnight before extracting?

 

[uncle crusty]

An old friend and co-worker showed me years ago how to find-the-lands without any custom-made tools. This may seem inaccurate to some folks but has worked satisfactorily for me.

01. Verify rifle is un-loaded!

02. Place bolt in rifle. Close bolt with firing pin in cocked position. Insert a metal dowel into barrel from muzzle end and “very gently” extend metal dowel until metal dowel is seated against bolt face. 03. Using a sharp lead pencil, place pencil lead at end of barrel holding pencil lead on metal dowel exterior surface.
04. Gently rotate metal dowel while holding slight pressure on metal dowel to ensure contact with bolt face. 05. After lead pencil mark has been placed on circumference on metal dowel, remove dowel.
06. mber with bullet tip pointing toward muzzle. “Very gently” tap base of bullet to seat bullet. 08. Insert metal dowel into barrel from muzzle end and “very gently” extend metal dowel until it is seated on bullet tip. 09. Using a sharp lead pencil, place pencil lead at end of barrel holding pencil lead on metal dowel exterior surface. (Same as Step 03 above). 10. Gently rotate metal dowel while holding slight pressure on metal dowel to ensure contact with bullet tip. (Similar to Step 04 above). 11. After 2nd lead pencil mark has been placed on circumference of metal dowel, remove metal dowel. (Similar to Step 05). 12. Measure between lead pencil marks with micrometer. This measurement is "bullet specific overall loaded cartridge length" from bolt face to bullet that is very slightly seated into rifling.

If the idea of using a metal dowel doesn't sit well with user, go with a 1-piece coated cleaning rod. All done without custom tooling.

I may have echoed a previous post by others. If so, my apologies.

 

[ELR LVR]

An old friend and co-worker showed me years ago how to find-the-lands without any custom-made tools. This may seem inaccurate to some folks but has worked satisfactorily for me.

01. Verify rifle is un-loaded!

02. Place bolt in rifle. Close bolt with firing pin in cocked position. Insert a metal dole into barrel from muzzle end and “very gently” extend metal dole until metal dole is seated against bolt face. 03. Using a sharp lead pencil, place pencil lead at end of barrel holding pencil lead on metal rod exterior surface.
04. Gently rotate metal dole while holding slight pressure on metal dole to ensure contact with bolt face. 05. After lead pencil mark has been placed on circumference on metal rod, remove rod.

06. Open bolt and remove from action. 07. Place desired bullet into barrel chamber with bullet tip pointing toward muzzle. “Very gently” tap base of bullet to seat bullet. 08. Insert metal dole into barrel from muzzle end and “very gently” extend metal dole until it is seated on bullet tip. 09. Using a sharp lead pencil, place pencil lead at end of barrel holding pencil lead on metal rod exterior surface. (Same as Step 03 above). 10. Gently rotate metal dole while holding slight pressure on metal dole to ensure contact with bullet tip. (Similar to Step 04 above). 11. After 2nd lead pencil mark has been placed on circumference of metal rod, remove rod. (Similar to Step 05). 12. Measure between lead pencil marks with micrometer. This measurement is bullet specific overall loaded cartridge length from bolt face to bullet very slightly seated to rifling.

All done without expensive custom tools.

Best method I've seen so far

 

[Orr89rocz]

I assume you locktite yr bullet in case neck n let it sit overnight before extracting?

No need, the neck tension on this one was ridiculous tight lol i need to fix that but it repeated and didnt move on my calipers. On my others i dont go for jam so i never force bolt close, i just seat down til it closes easy and bullet never moves out of the case because you are just trying to kiss the lands. I’ll use the hornady tool to get a rough measurement of lands to start seating to and then go down till the marker doesnt show.

In general for me i like the hornady tool and lightly press bullet in. It may be somewhat jam but as erik cortina says, use that as your base and subtract from there. No need for land touch measurements. This helps on throat eaters like my 28 nosler where it moved a good deal in several hundred rounds. I can quickly get on it with that tool and method.

 

[M-61]

Never really had a problem with the Hornady tool EXCEPT getting two exactly the same readings is not likely. I have only two cartridges for bench shooting. So once I have it I’m good. Meaning 5 readings with the Hornady. Pick the two closest ones. I go with that. My groups verify that. I’m more concerned with bullets from the same box having different ogive readings. It’s actually pretty bad.

 

[Janeau]

It seems to me that the same thing can be done by loading the cartridge too long and then slowly seat the bullet until the bolt closes.

This would be easier with a micrometer bullet seating screw. Do 0.10, then 0.05, etc.

This work very well. No tool needed.

 

[Janeau]

"Touch", is pretty subjective. I use this modified case that pinches the bullet lightly enough that it will slide in the neck but be held firmly enough to measure with calipers. I keep one of these in every die box, and log a OAL, for each bullet I'm trying. I have drilled out the primer pocket so I can re-set it easily and take three or four measures to get a good average, I'd say my degree of accuracy is +/- .001" jd
View attachment 1745520

The problem with this.is unless you lube the bullet..it can get stuck enough in the land that it show you longer than in reality. And the lube well..get you a few thou off.

 

[tom]

I like knowing exactly where touch is.

I use a piece of paper for a tool.

All you need to ever know on the subject in two sentences^^^^^^

Tom

 

[Ccrider]

I use the Wheeler method to find touch. However, it does not work if you have an ejector and I have never attempted to remove an ejector. At least not yet.

 

[Multiracer]

This work very well. No tool needed.

Strip the bolt first.

 

[JackWolfKnives]

I do it like speedy.
Pull the barrel.

Same here. Of all the methods I’ve tried, this is the most precise. I Can feel more this way vs the stripped bolt method, but they land within a few thou of each other when i test both.

 

[DaWhit]

I come up with the same number using either the Speedy or Wheeler method. If I have the barrel off already, the Speedy method seems to go a little quicker.
Both numbers differ from the Hornady gauge number, which is always further in the lands and less consistent in my attempts at finding touch point.

 

[JFrank]

When using the barrel off method, I’ve always considered a point where the bullet “just” turns without resistance touch but now with the PMA tool, Pat suggests the last number before the bullet turns freely is the touch point.
I guess that makes sense.

 

[Chris Edmondson]

I've used the Hornady OAL gage for years, it's not perfect but, once the imperfections are understood and accounted for, I've found it to be repeatable and sufficiently accurate.

The first imperfection is the modified case is unlikely to be dimensionally the same as a fired case in my rifle. This one is easy to account for, I believe Eric Corina published this years ago. The idea is to measure the base to shoulder of both the modified case and a fired case, then use the difference to adjust the gage's measured value.

There's another way to eliminate this imperfection which is to drill and tap one of my fired cases and use that instead of a Hornady modified case. This is easier said than done but, it can be accomplished with a drill press, mill or lathe. I've made a few of these and concluded it's not worth the effort, much easier to employ the above-mentioned adjustment with close-enough results.

The second imperfection also concerns the modified case. It's vital to the procedure that a bullet drops freely into the case neck, if it gets hung up or "sticky" in any way, that handicaps the "feel" needed when using the gage; it's hard to know if felt resistance is due to "touch", or a crappy modified case neck. I've tried 3 different 6BR modified cases, they all suck, so I made my own. Other calibers I've used work great.

With a cleaning rod inserted in the muzzle end, it's easy to push the bullet into the lands, and out of the lands in order to establish a feel for where the bullet is. When I get 3 or more tries out of 5 to agree, I'm good with that number. If I get even one crazy outlier, I start over. As always, YMMV.

 

[William Vogel]

I think it’s great to know exactly where the lands are but realistically the important thing is that once you adjust seating depth and find a place with the bullet that shoots small, the number you arrived at for the lands is just a reference. We know that bullet length varies at the meplat, you can’t measure overall length with accuracy so we measure to the ogive. The comparator may or may not be unique but most likely my comparator is different than yours so my measurements are different than yours. I simply need a reference point, which I get from the Hornady lock and load tool and I write down the length I find “to the lands”. I then seat at different lengths in respect to this reference length and when I get the really small groups on target, I have a repeatable length and that’s it. Does it really matter that it’s…. Thousandths jam or jump “from the lands”? No. The number I use is simply a reference and I seat to this number religiously for a while until the groups open up and then possibly the throat erosion has moved. At that point I recheck and adjust seating depth. I just don’t see the need to spend much time knowing exactly where the lands exist but more importantly knowing that the groups get small at xxx depth from my reference point.