Finding the lands without any tools.

[Paddyd]

I broke the end of my Hornady tool where it threads into a case so I came up with this vs buying another.
Take a fireformed unsized case and drill out the flash hole. Add a drop of blue loctite inside the neck. Carefully insert a bullet just far enough to be held in the neck and insert it all into the chamber. Take a section of old cleaning rod and push through from rear to push bullet against the lands. Remove rod and close bolt on it all. Wait 30 min for it to set up and measure with calipers. I used a case that was ready for scrap anyway so it all costs nothing and you can salvage the bullet too since it isnt glued in super tight .

 

[kenhwind]

It seems to me that the same thing can be done by loading the cartridge too long and then slowly seat the bullet until the bolt closes.

This would be easier with a micrometer bullet seating screw. Do 0.10, then 0.05, etc.

 

[Bronsin]

Videos | wheeleraccuracy

www.wheeleraccuracy.com

Finding the lands video

 

[kyotekiller25]

It seems to me that the same thing can be done by loading the cartridge too long and then slowly seat the bullet until the bolt closes.

This would be easier with a micrometer bullet seating screw. Do 0.10, then 0.05, etc.

That's essentially what I do. Seat long and go down in .005" increments. Though instead of chambering the round with the bolt, I'll hold the rifle vertical and just stick the round in the chamber with my thumb and give it some good seat force. If it gets stuck in the chamber and doesn't fall out freely, you know it's still in the lands. Pop it out with a cleaning rod and repeat. When it's not hitting the lands, it will just fall out of the chamber freely.

 

[Mike TackleBerry]

I broke the end of my Hornady tool where it threads into a case so I came up with this vs buying another.
Take a fireformed unsized case and drill out the flash hole. Add a drop of blue loctite inside the neck. Carefully insert a bullet just far enough to be held in the neck and insert it all into the chamber. Take a section of old cleaning rod and push through from rear to push bullet against the lands. Remove rod and close bolt on it all. Wait 30 min for it to set up and measure with calipers. I used a case that was ready for scrap anyway so it all costs nothing and you can salvage the bullet too since it isnt glued in super tight .

You're jamming the bullet by doing it that way. The problem is you don't know how far you're jamming it without knowing your touch measurement. Touch is supposed to be the ogive of the bullet barely kissing the lands. Doing it that way, I'd wager you're probably touch + .020 easily

 

[Bill Norris]

You're jamming the bullet by doing it that way. The problem is you don't know how far you're jamming it without knowing your touch measurement. Touch is supposed to be the ogive of the bullet barely kissing the lands. Doing it that way, I'd wager you're probably touch + .020 easily

Agree. I used to use the Hornady L & L tool but decided to try the Wheeler method and found I was way further in the lands than I thought.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

On the long loaded bullets being worked in, you cans scotch-brite the bullet each time to remove the groove marks. When the slightest mark is gone your in the touch area.

 

[CaptJim]

On the long loaded bullets being worked in, you cans scotch-brite the bullet each time to remove the groove marks. When the slightest mark is gone your in the touch area.

^^^ This is the way that worked best for me, I also removed the FP and ejector.
ETA: I also scotch -brite before the test, it shows the marks much better.

 

[alf]

I just smoke the bullet with a Bic lighter:

 

[Kevin1990]

I have the Hornady OAL gauge gathering dust. Ill use it for an AR maybe if the need arises, but the wheeler method is repeatable and way more accurate. Like Bill I was putting the bullet further into the lands than my touch point actually was. That said, maybe I'm just not good with the OAL gauge, but the Wheeler method is free and my favorite.

 

[Jet]

Wheeler method

 

[JEFFPPC]

Absolute accuracy is not a must it is only a reference point. I just polish a bullet and once I have a square mark on the bullet I start backing out. When I end up at the sweet spot I measure base to ogive, that's the only number I need.

 

[Knotwild]

I seat a bullet a little long in a dummy case. Burnish the bullet with OOO steel wool. Chamber it and I can see exactly where I am in the lands with a magnifying glass. I can then re-burnish and keep increasing the seating depth to get it where I want it. I don’t shoot any competition or long range, so it works pretty good.

 

[Mfitz717]

Urban rifleman has a good video on YouTube showing how to do it with a case.

 

[PhilC]

I just smoke the bullet with a Bic lighter:

Or color with a Sharpie (what I do).

 

[AlNyhus]

I've been using the Touch Point aka Wheeler method since before it was called the Wheeler method. Works great, no tools needed.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Absolute accuracy is not a must it is only a reference point. I just polish a bullet and once I have a square mark on the bullet I start backing out. When I end up at the sweet spot I measure base to ogive, that's the only number I need.

This is so right and also what so many people ignore. It doesn't matter what MY oal is or how I get there. What matters is YOUR oal that shoots best and that your method of finding it is consistent. My numbers mean zilch to your numbers. When people quote their oal or distance to/from their touch point, it's only relative to them and their load and rifle.

Whatever method you use, it's completely irrelevant to anyone else what your numbers are... in a different gun and different measuring tools, too. Heck, I make a great tool to do it with but I still say those are YOUR numbers and shouldn't mean anything to anyone else. It's just a reference point for where your gun/load shoots best, be it touch, jam or jump...those numbers are only relevant to YOU. Yet this subject comes up a lot and is often stated in load info for everyone to see. I firmly believe a "universal" method is most useful as a conversation piece more than any actual value to anyone else.

I spent years(still do) finding the point where I jammed so far that the amount of neck tension I used determined the amount the bullet could be jammed. I call this my "full jam". From that point, I only have one direction to move the bullet during testing. It's pretty simple that way and not very subjective either. Soft seat a long seated bullet, measure it and work back from there. This was a very common practice. IOW, it established "full jam" instead of "touch", but both are just reference points, so whatever ya call it, they do the same thing...establish a consistent reference point. Square marks were another standard that has worked for decades too.

 

[Murray Brook]

@gunsandgunsmithing
Exactly what I do. Full jam then there is only one way to go. I mean it's a # that is relevant to my chamber only.

 

[std7mag]

You're jamming the bullet by doing it that way. The problem is you don't know how far you're jamming it without knowing your touch measurement. Touch is supposed to be the ogive of the bullet barely kissing the lands. Doing it that way, I'd wager you're probably touch + .020 easily

While I won't disagree that doing it that way isn't jamming the bullet.
I really think that you may have misplaced the decimal mark.

I'd go with 0.002-0.005".

Copper is soft, yeah. But not that soft.

 

[jds holler]

"Touch", is pretty subjective. I use this modified case that pinches the bullet lightly enough that it will slide in the neck but be held firmly enough to measure with calipers. I keep one of these in every die box, and log a OAL, for each bullet I'm trying. I have drilled out the primer pocket so I can re-set it easily and take three or four measures to get a good average, I'd say my degree of accuracy is +/- .001" jd