finding lands?

[TrxR]

When using the Wheeler method can a virgin case be used or should it be a once fired and full length sized case?

I also watched his video on case sizing and seen where he likes to size his cases so the bolt falls closed. Is that the prefered way or is this preference ?

Also how much do you like to have your cases sized at the shoulder and at the datum line?

Thanks

 

[SealT5]

To answer your first question, yes you can use virgin brass. I find this method repeatedly accurate in my rifles

Joe

 

[Dusty Stevens]

When using the Wheeler method can a virgin case be used or should it be a once fired and full length sized case?

I also watched his video on case sizing and seen where he likes to size his cases so the bolt falls closed. Is that the prefered way or is this preference ?

Also how much do you like to have your cases sized at the shoulder and at the datum line?

Thanks

If you bump it back to where the bolt closes free it disturbs the rifle in the bags less and doesnt cut case life short as some have theorized

 

[Joel Dubose]

If you bump it back to where the bolt closes free it disturbs the rifle in the bags less and doesnt cut case life short as some have theorized

That cycling of the bolt can be a big problem if its moving the rifle around. I agree 100% its definitely a bigger problem than having min shoulder c lmk clearance but the bolt cycles smoothly

 

[bsekf]

If you are just looking for CBTO (case base to ogive) any case that fits in the chamber can be used. I didn't research the "Wheeler" method.

 

[Bill K]

Isn't the most or maybe the best way to make a chamber cast ?
That way the bullet may not slip, ever so slightly, in closing or opening the bolt and give a slightly off measurement on finding the lands. Just wondering.

 

[Texas10]

Are you attempting to find distance to lands, or are you measuring chamber length, aka headspace? You need to know your chamber length prior to establishing your distance to lands.

Except in belted cartridge cases, bottle neck cartridges index off the shoulder. So it is the distance from the shoulder to the lands that you are establishing, although we tend to measure by referencing off the case base. Now imagine using a cartridge case that is one inch shorter than the chamber, and how that would effect your measurements.

Regardless of the cartridge case you choose, you'll need to account for any difference between the base to datum length as compared to the actual chamber dimensions.

For instance, say you use a Hornaday LNL modified case that is .008 shorter than a case you've shot that is fully fire formed and chambers with a slightly stiff bolt drop. IOW, it fits the chamber precisely. Using the Hornady case to find and measure CBTO will yield a .008 error in the distance to the lands as compared to using a fully fire formed case.

Continuing on, whether you prefer to hand load using cases that are fully fire formed and fit the chamber snugly, or bump shoulder back for ease of chambering, you'll need to account for the difference when seating bullets IF your chosen bullet is sensitive regarding seating relative to the lands. In a worst case scenario, seating to touch during load development would yield very inconsistent results in SD/ES and target groups due to these variances in how the case was sized, how CBTO was measured, and consistency in bullet seating.

 

[TrxR]

Maybe Im looking at this wrong. But how can the case being a slightly different length matter when measuring from the base to the ogive? Wouldnt the difference just mean a longer case would have the bullet seated deeper?

Im looking at this for using a stripped bolt to find the lands by seating long and keep seating deeper until the is no click. Alex wheeler has a video on this on youtube.

The application in question is for a 30BR.

 

[SealT5]

@TrxR use the wheeler method exactly how you watch the video. It works. I’ve done it since the video was released.

Find the lands once. Write down the measurement. Back your die out 10 thou, reload, and repeat to verify. Do this several times until your confident. I have never had a misreading not once.

As mentioned do not load your rounds at touch. You either jam or jump. Never touch

Joe

 

[steelholder]

Hello everyone, im new here with a question relating to this topic. I watched the Wheeler method on YT but I can't get the empty case to fit freely the way it does in the video. The handle does not drop freely and I can feel tension when closing the bolt, ive removed the plunger and firing pin. What should I do to the case to ease up the pressure the way it is on the video? FL, NS, trim?

 

[rardoin]

Hello everyone, im new here with a question relating to this topic. I watched the Wheeler method on YT but I can't get the empty case to fit freely the way it does in the video. The handle does not drop freely and I can feel tension when closing the bolt, ive removed the plunger and firing pin. What should I do to the case to ease up the pressure the way it is on the video? FL, NS, trim?

Make sure you are using a new case or one with the shoulder pushed back enough for plenty of clearance. If a fired case you may need to use a small body die to provide clearance near the web area. Also, make sure you have cleaned the action lugs and the bolt lugs well so no old caked up grease is causing a little drag. Ensure the case neck is trimmed back so you are not running into the end of the chamber. All of these are possible causes of bolt resistance with the stripped bolt method. I like using a new case as it ensures clearance.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Hello everyone, im new here with a question relating to this topic. I watched the Wheeler method on YT but I can't get the empty case to fit freely the way it does in the video. The handle does not drop freely and I can feel tension when closing the bolt, ive removed the plunger and firing pin. What should I do to the case to ease up the pressure the way it is on the video? FL, NS, trim?

How does it feel with nothing in the chamber and stripped bolt?

 

[steelholder]

Make sure you are using a new case or one with the shoulder pushed back enough for plenty of clearance. If a fired case you may need to use a small body die to provide clearance near the web area. Also, make sure you have cleaned the action lugs and the bolt lugs well so no old caked up grease is causing a little drag. Ensure the case neck is trimmed back so you are not running into the end of the chamber. All of these are possible causes of bolt resistance with the stripped bolt method. I like using a new case as it ensures clearance.

Thanks, im pretty new to "precision" loading (not reloading) and I knew it had something to do with the shoulder. I tried running it through the FL sizing die but no luck yet. I dont have any virgin brass unfortunately. I do have some factory brass that I emptied and the resistance was much less but still there.

 

[steelholder]

How does it feel with nothing in the chamber and stripped bolt?

Totally loose and drops free.

 

[rardoin]

Thanks, im pretty new to "precision" loading (not reloading) and I knew it had something to do with the shoulder. I tried running it through the FL sizing die but no luck yet. I dont have any virgin brass unfortunately. I do have some factory brass that I emptied and the resistance was much less but still there.

Try cleaning the chamber well with a mop on a cleaning rod and make sure it is dry/oil free. If you have a lot of rounds down the barrel carbon build-up near the end of the chamber neck could cause a little bind.

 

[Medic505]

not load your rounds at touch. You either jam or jump. Never touch

Why?

 

[SealT5]

Too finicky

Why?

 

[steelholder]

Try cleaning the chamber well with a mop on a cleaning rod and make sure it is dry/oil free. If you have a lot of rounds down the barrel carbon build-up near the end of the chamber neck could cause a little bind.

Will do, although I feel its pretty clean and haven't shot more than 200 rounds from this barrel.

 

[INTJ]

I use the Hornady tools for headspace and bullet seating. It's very simple. For sizing, I measure a fired case and then set my sizer to push the shoulder back .002" or .003". I don't care if I am really .002, .003, or .004" short as long as they are consistent and there is no drag when working the bolt. Such drag slows me down during competition. I measure after each firing and will reset the die if needed, though usually after the second firing the measurements are stable.

I also have custom dies that size enough so the brass easily fits the chamber in diameter. Before I had the custom dies I would small base size the cases. I haven't seen a change in tune or accuracy by small base sizing cases, but I have had tight fitting cases slow me down during a string and mess up my group because I could shoot fast enough to keep everything in the same condition. This is in LR BR.

Also, I am aware there is a headspace error when finding the lands when using the Hornady tool. Again I don't care. What I want is a consistent reading as a reference point. I will find the best seating depth and it doesn't matter if I think I am .012 off the lands but I am really .016 off the lands.

And while I do try to avoid seating bullets right at the lands, I sometimes find that setting produces the best accuracy. I check seating depth after each match anyway. There is a slight risk of my load going out of tune when it's at the lands, but sometimes it shouts so much better there it's worth the risk. I will only seat at the lands for a BR rifle. I start at .020 jump with a hunting rifle and go deeper down there.

 

[WIB3]

The Wheeler method works, and works well. If you are looking for touch, use a new piece of brass. If you are not able to get a free bolt drop there’s something wrong. With new brass the bolt should drop. If so listen to the directions on the video. If the bolt hangs up you might want to consider a new sizing die and establish a proper head space first. .002” is the norm for head space.