Is this an effective method of correctly sizing a case

[RandyD]

I am interested in your feedback, specifically if this is a safe and effective method of correctly finding the optimal sizing of cartridge cases for a bolt action.

Start with new cases, and fireform each case.

Full length size the die with minimal sizing.

Remove the firing pin assembly from the bolt and attempt to gently close the bolt on the sized case.

Screw the sizing die down 1/8 turn, resize the case and attempt to close the bolt on the case.

Repeat until the bolt will close on the case with no resistance.

I thought this process would give the minimal amount of cartridge sizing to fully function in the intended rifle.

Thanks,

Randy

 

[BoydAllen]

I am not a fan of setting dies by feel, much preferring actual measurement. If you are on a tight budget, this can be done with a dial caliper and improvised tooling. As to your eighth of a turn, you might want to reconsider that. A full turn is about .071 so an eighth would be too much of a jump, amounting to approximately .009. I am not trying to discourage you, just give some information. We have all been there. Good luck with your loading.

 

[K22]

Not for hunting reloads in my humble opinion.

Starting with new brass is an excellent idea.

Get yourself a Wilson Case Gage, set up your full size die to size the cases so that they fits between the upper and lower steps of the gage. This will allow you to size your cases the proper amount and avoid under / oversizing. You'll have a functional brass capable of fine accuracy from a sizing perspective.

For hunting reloads - functionality and reliability are just as important as accuracy. Messing with tight sizing can lead to problems in the field especially in temperature extremes often encounter in a hunting situation.

 

[BoydAllen]

I didn't tell him how much to bump, just to measure. In effect, you are telling him to do the same thing, but depending on the rifle's headspace to be compatible with the Wilson Gauge. One thing that I would do, before taking ammo on a big game hunting trip is to remove the striker assembly and cycle all of the ammo through the action.

 

[300 RUM]

If you screw the die down until it touches the shell holder you will bring the case back to it's original size (in most cases). Ex, a .308 will measure 1.612-1.616, and your dies install as mentioned will bring you cases back to 1.612-1.616. Now you should use a head space gauge to measure the fired round and bump the shoulder back .001-.002. If you do not have a gauge wiat to get one before continuing or if money is tight touch the shell holder and proceed to reload.

Under sizing should not be a problem if you follow the touch method, but over sizing will cause you more headaches then you will ever want. If you over size (long) just imagine trying to get a stuck case out in the field.
As a competition shooter you can only imaging how pissed one gets when you stick a case!
As a hunter you can only imaging how pissed one gets when you stick a case!

 

[300 RUM]

If you screw the die down until it touches the shell holder you will bring the case back to it's original size (in most cases). Ex, a .308 will measure 1.612-1.616, and your dies install as mentioned will bring you cases back to 1.612-1.616. Now you should use a head space gauge to measure the fired round and bump the shoulder back .001-.002. If you do not have a gauge wiat to get one before continuing or if money is tight touch the shell holder and proceed to reload.

Another example is one of my .308's measures 1.6215 after firing, I size to 1.6195

Under sizing should not be a problem if you follow the touch method, but over sizing will cause you more headaches then you will ever want. If you over size (long) just imagine trying to get a stuck case out in the field.
As a competition shooter you can only imaging how pissed one gets when you stick a case!
As a hunter you can only imaging how pissed one gets when you stick a case!

 

[K22]

I didn't tell him how much to bump, just to measure. In effect, you are telling him to do the same thing, but depending on the rifle's headspace to be compatible with the Wilson Gauge. One thing that I would do, before taking ammo on a big game hunting trip is to remove the striker assembly and cycle all of the ammo through the action.

This is a good point - gage compatibility with your rifle's headspace -

The instructions with the Gage, "preferred method" involves checking the cases in the as fired condition and using the gage to adjust your full sizing die accordingly. If fact, Wilson makes this very point - "...because of the wide variation in reamers being used by today's manufacturers the "preferred method" of using the gage is suggested..".

I've found the Wilson gage to be a simple, highly effective tool to assure proper sizing for hunting reloads.

There are, of course, more accurate tools to measure and customize shoulder bump for precision shooting disciplines but these are also more costly and complicated.

 

[BoydAllen]

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=33287/Product/Wilson-Case-Gauge

If you follow the link, and figure some shipping into the prices, it seems to me that they are more expensive. As far as using a caliper attachment being complicated, I will take your word for that. Personally, it is a non issue. I have rifles, that I load for, in seven different calibers, none of which have the same headspace. At around $30 a caliber, that would add up to around $210. Which is the reason that I bought the attachment that Used to be manufactured by Stoney Point, and now is sold by Hornady many years ago. For about $38 plus shipping, I can handle all the calibers that I will ever have. I don't count the price of the dial calipers, because I already had them to measure case and loaded round length. Years ago I figured out that if one is loading for multiple calibers, that the Wilson gauges were too rich for my blood. Of course, one of the great things about a hobby is that you get to make these decisions for yourself. Obviously there is more than one way to handle this situation, and as long as yours works for you, there isn't a problem.
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/7288

 

[DCRYDER]

You wont get a stuck case if you dont push the shoulder back far enough. Just a tight bolt closure. Then bullet may get stuck if you are jamming hard and cannot close the bolt and need to eject, but the case should not get stuck.

I like the "feel" method myself (with firing pin assembly AND ejector removed). When the stripped bolt falls easily on a case you can double check by putting a piece of notebook paper in the boltface, then you should feel a little resistance when closing the bolt. Then of course 2 pieces should feel very tight.

The only chamber gauges that I trust are the ones that were made from the same reamer that made your chamber. If the angle of your shoulder in your gauge is the least bit different then it can cause problems.

Any time I chamber a barrel for a handloader I include a chamber gauge made from the breech end of their blank with the same reamer.

 

[RandyD]

Thanks everyone, and I appreciate your advice. I am a long time reloader (35+ years) but I am now just getting into precision reloading. I reload for two cartridges in a bolt action, .300 Win. Mag. and now 6mmBR. I had purchased the RCBS Precision Mic Cartridge Headspace tool for the .300 Win. Mag., but I do not get the same measurements when measuring the same cartridge case. (I do not have a background in using precision tools.) It seems to me that I should get the same measurement when measuring the same case. Consequently, I do not have much confidence in using that tool, which prompted me to start this thread.

As a side note, tonight I was watching some videos on YouTube and Sinclair has a three part series on full length sizing. In the first video, it discounted the sizing by feel method and recommended using a measuring tool, just as Boyd Allen suggested.

 

[300 RUM]

The only chamber gauges that I trust are the ones that were made from the same reamer that made your chamber. If the angle of your shoulder in your gauge is the least bit different then it can cause problems.

Any time I chamber a barrel for a handloader I include a chamber gauge made from the breech end of their blank with the same reamer.

If the shoulder angle varies from one case to another it doesn't matter what gauge you use hand mad or store bought your going to get different measurements. Only after the case is fired are you going to get a true measurement. New cases regardless of manufacturer can be a bit squeakily at times anyway.

I do all my own smith work and make all my own head space gauges also. I like you thought of giving a head space gauge out mad from the breech end, just have to make sure you get the correct datum size. I have had them .0015 undersized from others before. I hone to the finish size with excellent luck/skill.

When I do a chamber for others I will take a piece of old barrel in the same caliber and cut another chamber out slice it in two long ways on the band saw, polish and give them a half chamber for display purposes. Every one really likes that

 

[DennisH]

I just shot 135 new 308 Lapua brass.

This all depends if your hunting or competitive shooting. I do both, but for Competitive shooting I almost want a little resistance on my bolt when resizing.

I know my fired brass was .008 longer than my virgin brass, first firing. When I resize, I will be within .001 or less of my fired brass measurements. Hopefully .000

With these tolerences, you have to be carefull when resizing. Little things like a vibrating tumbler will change these measurements, I even heard tight necks will make a difference. I personally have a procedure that works and I am sticking with it. Thousandths are very hard to see, I have .003 shims and they are a good bit smaller than a hair.

Shims are easier to deal with vs. setting the lock nut on your die! As stated above, 1/8 turn is a lot on a die.

 

[300 RUM]

I just shot 135 new 308 Lapua brass.

This all depends if your hunting or competitive shooting. I do both, but for Competitive shooting I almost want a little resistance on my bolt when resizing.

That little bit resistance is what will exactly stick a fired case, believe me.

 

[BoydAllen]

I disagree. In my experience, if we are talking about FL sized brass that was previously fired in the same rifle, the main reason that a round would would get stuck is that the bullet was seated way too long, with a fair amount of neck tension, and when resistance was felt, as the bolt was being closed, the shooter tried but failed to force the bolt to close completely. If a standard FL die is used for a SAAMI spec. chamber, the diameter of the body of the case will have clearance, as will the neck, and the only point of interference will be at the shoulder. If a case is too long in this dimension, and has clearance everywhere else, opening the bolt will free it.

 

[300 RUM]

I disagree. In my experience, if we are talking about FL sized brass that was previously fired in the same rifle, the main reason that a round would would get stuck is that the bullet was seated way too long, with a fair amount of neck tension, and when resistance was felt, as the bolt was being closed, the shooter tried but failed to force the bolt to close completely. If a standard FL die is used for a SAAMI spec. chamber, the diameter of the body of the case will have clearance, as will the neck, and the only point of interference will be at the shoulder. If a case is too long in this dimension, and has clearance everywhere else, opening the bolt will free it.

My bad Boyd, I wasn't thinking F/L sizing. your right I can't figure out where my head is some times.

 

[MarkS]

RandyD,
I do as you said above. I have a Harrel F/L bushing die that comes with a brass shoulder thing to measure shoulder bump. I have a Stony Point for all my other cases. I go by feel and check bump. 0.001" to 0.002" is good. I size like this everything firing, that way every case is the same everytime.

Mark Schronce

 

[DennisH]

I know one day it will happen . . .

But as of this date, I have never had a stuck fired case.

I avg shooting 200 rounds plus per month. I have lost count on how many rounds I have shot during my time shooting matches. My bullets are usually off the lands. I may have a little resistance loading the round, not much, and after firing, the bolt is as free as can be. I have checked it many times. I lift the bolt, come back about an inch, rechamber the just fired brass, no resistance.

On my 6.0x47 Lapua, I usually run by bergers in the lands at .010. I had a firing pin problem and had to unchamber the round. The bullet stayed in the lands, and the brass come out. I am ucky it is a single shot action.

Every rifle and barrel is different, but so far I have had three barrels on my 308 with no problems.

 

[K22]

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=33287/Product/Wilson-Case-Gauge

If you follow the link, and figure some shipping into the prices, it seems to me that they are more expensive. As far as using a caliper attachment being complicated, I will take your word for that. Personally, it is a non issue. I have rifles, that I load for, in seven different calibers, none of which have the same headspace. At around $30 a caliber, that would add up to around $210. Which is the reason that I bought the attachment that Used to be manufactured by Stoney Point, and now is sold by Hornady many years ago. For about $38 plus shipping, I can handle all the calibers that I will ever have. I don't count the price of the dial calipers, because I already had them to measure case and loaded round length. Years ago I figured out that if one is loading for multiple calibers, that the Wilson gauges were too rich for my blood. Of course, one of the great things about a hobby is that you get to make these decisions for yourself. Obviously there is more than one way to handle this situation, and as long as yours works for you, there isn't a problem.
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/7288

True enough - However I never saw a Wilson Gage go out of calibration
- "just pulling your leg a little".

You make good points as usual but I like the simplicity of the Wilson Gage but then again I'm just an old simple guy.

 

[BoydAllen]

;D