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F-Class Products AutoDOD Preview

You shooting at 600 or 1000?
I have to travel about 250 miles one way to shoot @ 1000 so it does not happen very often, my local range only goes to 800. If you are implying that shooting @ 1000 is more difficult, you will not get any argument from me. Wind reading and trigger technique is exponentially more important the farther out you shoot.

What you guys are not getting is that the best rifle and ammo in the world and without talent and practice it is useless. On the other hand ever have you ever read about the 1921 Wimbledon Cup Match. Worth while reading for those who do blame their failures on their equipment


https://www.bobrohrer.com/sea_stories/end_of_an_era.pdf
 
What you guys are not getting is that the best rifle and ammo in the world and without talent and practice it is useless.
Who is claiming you shouldn't practice?

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Who is claiming you shouldn't practice?
Seems to me that a lot on this thread are implying that if I have $2500 in my "toy account" to spend on ammo components and barrels or spend that $2500 on a automatic neck turning machine the latter would be the wiser choice. I am not poor by any standard but my hobby budget not unlimited so I do need to make choices. I shoot over 100 rounds per week just for my centerfire practice, add in barrel wear etc and it adds up. Then there are match fees and if I travel the gas, hotels etc. All I am saying is bench toys are pretty low on priority list.
 
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I have to travel about 250 miles one way to shoot @ 1000 so it does not happen very often, my local range only goes to 800. If you are implying that shooting @ 1000 is more difficult, you will not get any argument from me. Wind reading and trigger technique is exponentially more important the farther out you shoot.

What you guys are not getting is that the best rifle and ammo in the world and without talent and practice it is useless. On the other hand ever have you ever read about the 1921 Wimbledon Cup Match. Worth while reading for those who do blame their failures on their equipment


https://www.bobrohrer.com/sea_stories/end_of_an_era.pdf
Not implying anything. However, and excuse me in advance for being brash, if after 3 years of sending $200 of ammo down range every week at midrange, you are still in the 180s-190’s, there is something else going on with either your equipment/setup, or your reloading. i Am starting my 4th year, and the biggest advancement that I experienced with my shooting was when I had complete confidence in my gear. Surely you have had a day with near perfect conditions. The veritable “trigger pulling contest”. Are you cleaning targets then? X-count in the teens? Trust your gear inherently? As far as blame, if I have a bad shot- it’s me. I either missed a wind call, didn’t have rifle tuned, or I messed up at the loading bench. I own every shot.
 
Watching your edits flow in an attempt to create the perfect dismissive response is sad to see. I post a tiny video of an awesome new tool... and the first response is complaining about price. I don't know why I even bother. Looking at your recent post history, this is one of your favorite things to do. Tear down and marginalize new equipment because you can't afford it.

Why do you feel the need to telegraph your diminished financial status to the world? What bearing does it have on this tool? Is it really so important that you let everyone know what you can and can not afford? Does complaining here about price of things as I see you do all the time really help alleviate your desire to have better things? Do you think your complaints being joined by other complainers in an attempt at strength of numbers makes any difference?

Do you have any concept of what this kind of complaining does to your perception of yourself? It's obvious what other people will think of you, but have you considered the damage you're doing to your earning potential by giving it a voice and putting it to text?

I've fired in excess of 4,000 rounds so far this year if memory serves (I'd have to check barrel logs). None of that stops me from buying great new gear from great companies made up of great people to attempt to make my experiences better.

Your complaints against this tools price have been noted for anyone that cares. It's not F-Class Products fault if your desires are not matched by your income. If you desire this tool, but can't afford it, you could just say "boy that thing looks neat" and move along. Then set intelligent plans in motion to get it. If you don't desire this tool, then all you're doing is trying to get other people to complain about price with you, so you all can feel better about absolving yourselves from the pressure to make more money to be able to afford it, while simultaneously attempting to damage F-Class Products.

Just once, I'd like a company to be able to release a product without someone complaining about the price. Take a close look at this machine. Look at all the machined parts. Look at the electronics, micrometers, indicators, sensors, motors, etc. Do you have any concept of what that stuff costs? Do you know how long it would take to assemble one after it's machined? I do. They deserve to make money on this product. It costs less than half what my Prometheus cost... so this is a cheap tool as far as I'm concerned. It's 100% unique. Nothing else out there like it. ...and considering my initial results, works exactly as advertised. Frankly, I have no idea how they can release this thing this cheap and be worth their while to produce. It has to be a labor of love, because they can't be making diddly squat after all that goes into it. Just cutting the wood and building the custom pallet it ships in must take nearly an hour.

So STOP crapping on companies and their products because of their price. NO ONE BUT YOU is responsible for whether you can afford something. The fact that this needs to be explained to you should be evidence enough of that being the reason you can't afford it in the first place. Now go ahead and get mad at me for suggesting you stand upright and reconcile your self worth.

ORKIN Well said !!!
 
Not implying anything. However, and excuse me in advance for being brash, if after 3 years of sending $200 of ammo down range every week at midrange, you are still in the 180s-190’s, there is something else going on with either your equipment/setup, or your reloading.
perhaps my posts were not clear, 4 years ago I started in the 180's and 190's. Now they are in the mid to upper 190's. Still no clean 200's but maybe someday, wind still kicks my butt. At 800 recently I had a 180 on the 18th shot, dropped 2 points and ended with a 198. Choked big time

edit - As far as my gear goes it may not be top of the heap dollar wise but it's can stay below a MOA easily. This is just a retirement hobby to occupy my time. I have no illusions/delusions of winning the Nationals. Second and third pics pic were from a couple of weeks back when I was load developing with some 80's to see how they shot at mid range, I am thinking about using them for mid range matches out to 600. Not benchrest quality maybe, but the for F class do I really need bench rest quality?
 

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Not benchrest quality maybe, but the for F class do I really need bench rest quality?
This Is the crux of it. It’s all up to you. However deep down the rabbit hole you want to. The guys I am trying to beat have BR accurate guns. As a self proclaimed gear whore, I have no issues trying new tools and equipment that will get me there. And maybe that was the point the OP was trying to make- if you don’t think you would find value or benefit from something, just keep scrolling. Every perspective is just as unique as the barrel a guy shoots. At this point, I am going with the IDOD is like a boat- its great to have a friend with one to try before you buy.

edit: thanks for posting the pics. If it were me, I would try to work on the load to bring down the ES and shrink that waterline. But others may be better tea leaf readers.
 
This Is the crux of it. It’s all up to you. However deep down the rabbit hole you want to. The guys I am trying to beat have BR accurate guns. As a self proclaimed gear whore, I have no issues trying new tools and equipment that will get me there. And maybe that was the point the OP was trying to make- if you don’t think you would find value or benefit from something, just keep scrolling. Every perspective is just as unique as the barrel a guy shoots. At this point, I am going with the IDOD is like a boat- its great to have a friend with one to try before you buy.

edit: thanks for posting the pics. If it were me, I would try to work on the load to bring down the ES and shrink that waterline. But others may be better tea leaf readers.
You are right , probably best to let Darwin just take it's natural course, nod politely and move on. With the SD running from 4 - 8 and 300 yard groups averaging .5 MOA doubt if I can get that rifle to perform much better. Like I said my wind reading and hold need a lot of work

Action was salvaged from a Stevens 200 with a demolished stock and bent barrel, there is a long story to go with that. It cost me all of $75, the stock is a $150 Boyds with my first attempt at bedding. Complete rifle including optics ran about $1500. One of these days I may get serious about this stuff. Maybe even replace my Lee turret press

edited for puctulation and speeling a few times
 
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someone who makes his living selling high end gear telling me why I need to buy it, I am shocked, shocked I say

I was ready to walk away from this thread but since some want to continue I'm game for one last post

Economics 101 tells me that a business needs to sell to make money so the owners can feed their families and pay their employees. Now I don't mind supporting the economy but will choose to continue to spend my dollars on things that I believe will really make a difference and enable me to practice and hone my skills to shoot better.

Just looked at my "toy account" as I call it and last year I spent over $12 K on shooting related items. To be clear I am neither bragging or complaining here, I am sure some spent more and others spent less depending on their situations. Kudos to those who spent more, you have probably led a successful life to be able to devote that much for a hobby.

Just last week I ordered the parts to build my first non Savage action based rifle, and am hoping with the trigger being a bit smoother and the stock tracking a bit straighter it may help me get up that last couple of points to HM. Now to me that seems to be a lot wiser choice than a buying $4K press or a $2K neck turning machine.

Over the next few months I could buy either or both along with a $1000 chrono and a $1500 dollar annealing machine and a few other high end bench toys. However I do not think any or all of those would help my scores one bit. My measuring tools tell me that my rounds are concentric and consistent using the
tools I already own. What I do think may help is tossing a few hundred rounds down range every month practicing in the wind and mirage so I can better learn to handle them and taking my rifle up to the next level

Now enough of this , continue with your sales pitches, I am really out of this thread as of this post
 
someone who makes his living selling high end gear telling me why I need to buy it, I am shocked, shocked I say
I don't sell AutoDOD's. lol
You haven't a clue who I am. You think you can make up your version of the world in your head, and we're all suppose to match it? What a sad reality you face. I feel sorry for you.

I am really out of this thread as of this post

You couldn't stop posting in this thread if someone paid you to. You should have walked away from it before you even posted once... since you had literally NOTHING to add, but you just can't, can you? That's why you can be seen trashing new equipment in thread after thread.

Yet I can't help but notice a common reality: You don't have any experience with any of it. lol None. Zip. Nada. No experience at all, yet you think your opinion on that which you've never touched matters! Seek professional help.
 
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Back to our regularly scheduled program.

I have been turning some Peterson 6BR today, straight out of the box. I was getting some variance of about a thousandth of thickness... from one side of the brass to the other. I called Tony @ F-Class Products, and he took the time to talk me through "best practices" with this machine and that helped a lot.

Moral of the story is the machine is designed for full clean up, inside and outside. It doesn't really like doing the standard 85-90% clean up I have grown accustomed to with my traditional turning equipment. So I had to come down to about .011" thickness to get there. Once I did that, I was seeing piece after piece with .0002" or less of variance. I could never consistently hit +/- .0001 with my traditional turning equipment. Not even close.

I have a batch of virgin Lapua 300NM I'm going to tear into next. I'll keep you posted. So far I'm very happy. :)
 
Well, I’ve been watching this thread and the two that keep going back and forth should have just let it a long time ago. Quite a match of egos, I’m not impressed with either side. Either you talk about the product or you don’t, the banter adds nothing to the conversation.
 
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Well, I’ve been watching this thread and the two that keep going back and forth should have just let it a long time ago. Quite a match of egos, I’m not impressed with either side. Either you talk about the product or you don’t, pretty simple.
... and yet here you are NOT talking about the product. Literally, actively DOING the exact thing you're complaining about. Do you even realize that? Do you realize that I wouldn't be able to tell people to shut up if they weren't talking? If YOU and Jimmy boy, would just keep quiet about things that are NOT THE PRODUCT, the thread would happily stay on topic.

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... and yet here you are NOT talking about the product. Literally, actively DOING the exact thing you're complaining about. Do you even realize that? Do you realize that I wouldn't be able to tell people to shut up if they weren't talking? If YOU and Jimmy boy, would just keep quiet about things that are NOT THE PRODUCT, the thread would happily stay on topic.

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I've been following this with an interest in a new product. I probably couldn't see me buying one but like to see new ideas as you never know what you'll learn. Really don't have a dog in this fight but you seem to think you're the only one entitled to an opinion on this product. Another site I'm on has gotten to this point. Everyone promotes the first amendment until its something they dont like. I think accusing Jim sc as being the only one who couldn't walk away from this dust up is a little pot and kettle. From your reaction to Jim I'm sure I'll take some heat but wow man!! Take a deep breath and let it go. Its not worth it. Have a good one and good luck with your products
 

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