F-Class Products AutoDOD Preview
- Thread starter orkan
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orkan
Site $$ Sponsor
I can't afford expensive bench toys to impress my brother in law, I spend all my money on ammo components and barrels so I can learn how to actually shoot. Seems to be paying off. Now if that thing could read the wind downrange I would order two of them
orkan
Site $$ Sponsor
Watching your edits flow in an attempt to create the perfect dismissive response is sad to see. I post a tiny video of an awesome new tool... and the first response is complaining about price. I don't know why I even bother. Looking at your recent post history, this is one of your favorite things to do. Tear down and marginalize new equipment because you can't afford it.
Why do you feel the need to telegraph your diminished financial status to the world? What bearing does it have on this tool? Is it really so important that you let everyone know what you can and can not afford? Does complaining here about price of things as I see you do all the time really help alleviate your desire to have better things? Do you think your complaints being joined by other complainers in an attempt at strength of numbers makes any difference?
Do you have any concept of what this kind of complaining does to your perception of yourself? It's obvious what other people will think of you, but have you considered the damage you're doing to your earning potential by giving it a voice and putting it to text?
I've fired in excess of 4,000 rounds so far this year if memory serves (I'd have to check barrel logs). None of that stops me from buying great new gear from great companies made up of great people to attempt to make my experiences better.
Your complaints against this tools price have been noted for anyone that cares. It's not F-Class Products fault if your desires are not matched by your income. If you desire this tool, but can't afford it, you could just say "boy that thing looks neat" and move along. Then set intelligent plans in motion to get it. If you don't desire this tool, then all you're doing is trying to get other people to complain about price with you, so you all can feel better about absolving yourselves from the pressure to make more money to be able to afford it, while simultaneously attempting to damage F-Class Products.
Just once, I'd like a company to be able to release a product without someone complaining about the price. Take a close look at this machine. Look at all the machined parts. Look at the electronics, micrometers, indicators, sensors, motors, etc. Do you have any concept of what that stuff costs? Do you know how long it would take to assemble one after it's machined? I do. They deserve to make money on this product. It costs less than half what my Prometheus cost... so this is a cheap tool as far as I'm concerned. It's 100% unique. Nothing else out there like it. ...and considering my initial results, works exactly as advertised. Frankly, I have no idea how they can release this thing this cheap and be worth their while to produce. It has to be a labor of love, because they can't be making diddly squat after all that goes into it. Just cutting the wood and building the custom pallet it ships in must take nearly an hour.
So STOP crapping on companies and their products because of their price. NO ONE BUT YOU is responsible for whether you can afford something. The fact that this needs to be explained to you should be evidence enough of that being the reason you can't afford it in the first place. Now go ahead and get mad at me for suggesting you stand upright and reconcile your self worth.
DngBat7
Silver $$ Contributor
So I have been interested in one of those, but I’m gonna hold off for a while. Seems pretty impressive and fast to use from watching your video. Now that you have used it a bit, I have a question on those that I can’t get out of my head. To use it, Does not your brass have to be 100 perfect concentricity wise? If it’s off even a little, I would assume it have highs and lows in the necks after turning. More from the shoulder to the mouth more than the sides. This is not a negative comment at all to the machine, I am very impressed. I am curious.Got mine setup and have been running some cases. Pretty impressive unit so far.
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Not interested in the complaining or the response to the complaining, but I have always liked the IDOD and this appears to be the automated version of it. Thus, "AutoDOD."
The only small issue I see with the IDOD/ AutoDOD is the cases need to be absolutely straight before turning or the neck wall thickness will vary. F-Class mentions this in their IDOD video, and in the above video we can see one case that wasn't straight and so the neck wobbles a bit while being turned. Given the cutters appear to be fixed vs floating, a straight case is a must.
When we use a hand turner like PMA or many of the others, the cutter does float by virtue of our holding it in our hand. However, I have found even with a hand held floating cutter the neck will vary in thickness if the case isn't mostly straight.
So each case ought to be run through a FL non-bushing die before turning with the DODs, which isn't a big deal. We ought to do that regardless of our neck turning method. With the DODs we don't need to use an oversized expander mandrel or put our cutting tool on ice between turnings. If one is turning a lot of necks they would not regret this tool.
The only small issue I see with the IDOD/ AutoDOD is the cases need to be absolutely straight before turning or the neck wall thickness will vary. F-Class mentions this in their IDOD video, and in the above video we can see one case that wasn't straight and so the neck wobbles a bit while being turned. Given the cutters appear to be fixed vs floating, a straight case is a must.
When we use a hand turner like PMA or many of the others, the cutter does float by virtue of our holding it in our hand. However, I have found even with a hand held floating cutter the neck will vary in thickness if the case isn't mostly straight.
So each case ought to be run through a FL non-bushing die before turning with the DODs, which isn't a big deal. We ought to do that regardless of our neck turning method. With the DODs we don't need to use an oversized expander mandrel or put our cutting tool on ice between turnings. If one is turning a lot of necks they would not regret this tool.
DngBat7
Silver $$ Contributor
Good point. I’m dumb. I did not think of sizing before throwing it in the dod turner.
orkan
Site $$ Sponsor
These cases I was turning were virgin peterson 6BR. I did hit them with an expander prior to turning. I have 500 pcs of this brass, so I was experimenting... and while they aren't perfectly straight, the tool did a pretty good job on thickness. A little bit of flex in the cutters would seem to be present, giving them a bit of an "auto-centering" behavior. I'm still really new on the machine, and I want to call Brian for a quick "tips and tricks" session before I get too far into it.
Most of my chambers I'll be able to fire form and come out of the chamber straight into the AutoDOD. If that doesn't yield best results, then I'll hit them with the FL die before turning. I'm guessing there will be some trial and error.
A few of my neck turn chambers won't allow me to fire before turning... so I think I'm going to do a minimal skim pass on new brass to give enough clearance to fire, and do so without ejector plunger in, as per usual. They should come out pretty round and straight after that. Then I'll do another pass to the final thickness.
Straight is relative. Part of the process is ordering the correct shell holder for the brass you are turning. (Peterson 284 is a diff holder than 6.5x284). That will get the neck as concentric to the body as possible. At that point, if you are taking more off total inside and outside, than there is runout, you will get full cleanup. If you are trying to take a thou total, and there is .0013 runout, then you will not get full cleanup.
When I was turning new 6br lapua brass, I did some out of the box, and used a mandrel on some, and had much better cleanup straight out of the box. My only guess there, is that there was enough slop in the press to induce some runout with the floating mandrel.
We did this with some 6.5x284 brass to neck it up first. An obersevation was that, pulling the expander ball thru, lengthened the neck so that the brass thinned just a touch at the neck shoulder junction leaving the occasional low spot. Was very concentric after the sizing die though, to INTJ’s point.
whats sad is watching
There is a huge difference between not having money to spend and choosing to spend it on something that will actually help my scores. My first post was just poking a bit of fun and I apologize if I hurt your feelings. What I said is true though, I have pics of my targets with 197's and 198's shot with a rifle/scope combo that cost less than that neck turner.
As far as my posting history. I think there are a lot of people in this and other sports that think that they can buy talent rather than earn it with hard work and practice.
-edited many times for grammar, spelling and sentence flow
There is a huge difference between not having money to spend and choosing to spend it on something that will actually help my scores. My first post was just poking a bit of fun and I apologize if I hurt your feelings. What I said is true though, I have pics of my targets with 197's and 198's shot with a rifle/scope combo that cost less than that neck turner.
As far as my posting history. I think there are a lot of people in this and other sports that think that they can buy talent rather than earn it with hard work and practice.
-edited many times for grammar, spelling and sentence flow
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orkan
Site $$ Sponsor
So, Which is it? "Can't afford" doesn't have anything to do with choosing anything. The way you write and constantly complain about price of new equipment doesn't read like you're choosing anything. It reads like someone playing a victim.
You didn't hurt my feelings at all. You made an attempt to hurt F-Class Products by complaining about the price of an already underpriced product. Thread after thread you can be seen marginalizing the best equipment available while using price as your primary attack. You don't own any of it, and as such you have no clue whether it can help scores or not. You just attack based on price, as if you are the authority on what is "expensive." Somewhere, someone is arguing that things YOU have are too expensive. They are no more right than you.
There's plenty of cheap garbage and value oriented products out there for everyone. Do we really need ANOTHER $150-$300 budget hand-operated neck turning system? No, we don't. Lots of companies have it covered already. What we needed was an automatic turning station that could pump out high quantity with little effort and do so very uniformly. F-Class Products has made an attempt to deliver. I am too new with mine to say whether they succeeded or not, but it sure seems like they have.
Straighten yourself out please. Have some respect for yourself. Have some respect for the fine people working at those companies pushing the boundaries. If they succeed, we all succeed.
Since you seem to be proud of your scores... here's a card from Bryan Blake, the inventor of the AutoDOD. He's using high end equipment in his reloading process. That brass he used on that card was turned on an AutoDOD.
So go shoot a card like this, then come back and tell me how all this fancy gear isn't needed. Until then, get a hold of yourself and stop crippling peoples opinions of you by complaining about money. It's petty and small. You're bigger than that. I know it, and you know it. I don't think you're a bad person, nor do I want a fight with you. I simply want you to stand tall and leave these companies to their success. It's hard enough to build something. They don't need you trying to tear them down because of the fiscal realities that this world presents. If you have a technical reasoning for not liking things, then lets talk about that. The price argument is petty and tired. Leave it lay.
Punkinslinger
Gold $$ Contributor
@orkan , I too have recently acquired an Autodod and am curious if you've found anything to catch the shavings so they do not fall into the stepper motor rails and mechanism ? Or just let the chips fall where they may ?( Ha You see what I did there !! This thread needs a little humor) Then vacuum or blow them off. I watched Erik Cortina's video on this and it appears he used a piece of vinyl or thin leather to cover things. I sliced a piece of plastic tube for fluorescent light protector and it works sort of ok, just curious if you've found a better mousetrap?
kindabitey
Silver $$ Contributor
orkan
Site $$ Sponsor
I asked F-Class Products about this... and they said the screw and brass nut is "self cleaning" and the brass nut is easy to replace if necessary. So I haven't worried about it. I just suck the brass chips up with a small vac once in a while and call it good.
don't know about you but I budget certain amount of money toward my hobbies, and I have to choose which items to spend it on. I choose to spend that money on the firing line, practicing.
No idea why you think I am playing the victim here, I don't blame my equipment for my scores. Anything outside the ten ring is all me and my lack of shooting/wind reading abilities. I am doing my best to remedy that by shooting 50 - 100 centerfire rounds each week and about twice that many rimfire. Been doing that about three years now. It's paying off this season, I am starting to actually come in ahead of a lot of the HM's at my club.
Great shooting by the way, but I think you are cutting yourself short. That machine did not read the wind for you, nor did it help your cheek weld or trigger pull. It was all you that made the decision when to fire and kept calm when you had that 19th 10 and did not pull the 20th shot
orkan
Site $$ Sponsor
I don't see where you think I am playing victim or whining. That's a great card by the way but I think you cut your own abilities short. That machine did not read the wind for you, help with the cheek weld, or keep you calm and focused when you put that 19'th shot in the ten ring and you were going for the 20th. That was all you and you could probably do the same with out of the box brass
I have only been shooting 4 years now, no 200's for me yet. My best match score was 197 6x in 10 - 15 mph winds @ 600, and yes I have a pic. I am trying to improve though. I choose to do that by spending that money on the firing line, spending $200 - $250 or more a week putting together ammo and sending it downrange. It's paying off, I have went from 550ish aggregates to 185 - 190 aggregates using the same equipment (rebarreled a few times now) I started with four years ago.
Myself I think someone is whiner when they blame their score on their tools rather than on their own performance. My dad taught me that it is a poor carpenter that blames their tools on a shoddy job.
You shooting at 600 or 1000?
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