F-Class now has it's own Rules Book (2024)

[Steve Jennings]

Your shoulder should be touching the butt plate when the rifle is fired. Free recoil is when there is a space between your shoulder and the butt plate when the rifle is fired, or you are shooting from a position where the rifle is not shouldered i.e. creedmoor shooting position

IF free recoil is an advantage, then you just allowed me a huge one. I am old and fat. I have at least 3/4" of no resistance flubber before any resistance can be felt, let alone influence recoil. This rule clarification is against skinny guys in this class.

 

[memilanuk]

I remember long ago and far away on the old longrange.com forums when this was being hashed over the first time (okay, maybe the second) one guy said "Fine. I'll just duct-tape a piece of the softest sponge I can find to the butt plate. Technically it'll be 'touching' my shoulder." Between that and observations on how most people wear loose enough shirts that it's hard to really tell if your shoulder is *actually* touching... the whole topic kind of died on the vine - though it keeps coming up when someone new finds out about it for the first time (again).

 

[Matthew Schwartzkopf]

Maybe I missed it, did we see rules about binocular eyepieces for spotting?

3.8 Spotting Scope - The use of a telescope to spot shots is permitted. It may be positioned forward of the shooter's forward shoulder.

There is nothing about binocular eyepieces in the rule. I heard a rumor that someone says the rule says a telescope and that means only one eye piece. When looking at the definition of telescope from Oxford languages, a telescope is defined as "an optical instrument designed to make distant objects appear nearer, containing an arrangement of lenses, or of curved mirrors and lenses, by which rays of light are collected and focused and the resulting image magnified." No where in the definition does it say one eyepiece versus two.

 

[drop_point]

That is exactly how I took it, too, Matthew.

 

[Codyway]

General match considerations. f class takes a hot minute to get your gear on the line and lined out for a string of fire. When I go to matches where the line allows a shooter to leave their gear on the line I see that as taking away a part of the skill set of the match. I feel you should re build for every string, not just one time. Maybe extend prep time from 3 to 5 minutes for F but I don’t like seeing bags and rests on the line all day.

I have always thought it was a bit unfair for some to be required to remove their gear from the line due to space considerations, but some be allowed to maintain their position. If one has to move, everyone should be required to move.

 

[diego-ted]

IF free recoil is an advantage, then you just allowed me a huge one. I am old and fat. I have at least 3/4" of no resistance flubber before any resistance can be felt, let alone influence recoil. This rule clarification is against skinny guys in this class.

ROLMAO

 

[Dos XX]

There is nothing worse than a low down free recoiling, new age front bag using, two-eyed scope peeping, deep pile carpet abusing sumbitch. Seriously, you know who you are. You are probably looking at a dirty magazine right now, you degenerate. Your mother would be ashamed.

 

[Ned Ludd]

There is nothing worse than a low down, free recoiling, new age front bag using, two-eyed scope peeping, carpet abusing, sumbitch. Seriously, you know who you are. You are probably looking at a dirty magazine right now, you degenerate. Your mother would be ashamed.

I can't help but feel that you could have worked some kind of disease-related terms such as "botulism" or "bubonic plague" into your reply if you had just tried a little harder.

 

[dbramley]

Seriously disappointed in the F class community right now. How about instead of bitching about a photo you say thanks for to those individuals who spent their money and time working on the impossible project that "making everyone happy."

 

[davidjoe]

Seriously disappointed in the F class community right now. How about instead of bitching about a photo you say thanks for to those individuals who spent their money and time working on the impossible project that "making everyone happy."

I was just joking about the carry over illustration . I do thank them, I don’t know who they are …. But I thank them.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

3.8 Spotting Scope - The use of a telescope to spot shots is permitted. It may be positioned forward of the shooter's forward shoulder.

Since you brought it up (the rule I mean):

Question: If a spotting scope is permitted for spotting shots, would it then be illegal for reading mirage when shooting on E-targets? There is no way to spot shots in that situation.

 

[kzin]

What an incredibly stupid, dishonest rule set.

Go ahead and use bench rest equipment that allows bench rest technique but never forget we're pretending this isn't prone bench rest.

 

[kzin]

I remember long ago and far away on the old longrange.com forums when this was being hashed over the first time (okay, maybe the second) one guy said "Fine. I'll just duct-tape a piece of the softest sponge I can find to the butt plate. Technically it'll be 'touching' my shoulder." Between that and observations on how most people wear loose enough shirts that it's hard to really tell if your shoulder is *actually* touching... the whole topic kind of died on the vine - though it keeps coming up when someone new finds out about it for the first time (again).

I actually carried a piece of foam to stick under my t-shirt for a while.
Just in case some fundamentalist whined.
Back to that, I guess.

 

[Matthew Schwartzkopf]

Seriously disappointed in the F class community right now. How about instead of bitching about a photo you say thanks for to those individuals who spent their money and time working on the impossible project that "making everyone happy."

Right!!! I think the picture on the cover should be changed to something the more represents F-Class shooters, and with this thread it is hard to decide between a crying baby in diapers or a snowflake. Seriously, why does everyone have to nitpick at the rules when if they just used common sense and understanding of the sport (Spirit of F-Class) it is really easy to understand. The rules that people are nitpicking are some of the most cut and dry rules, but I guess people have to feel important and just have to bitch about something, or just have to comment to comment.

Since you brought it up (the rule I mean):

Question: If a spotting scope is permitted for spotting shots, would it then be illegal for reading mirage when shooting on E-targets? There is no way to spot shots in that situation.

Think about it for a second and the answer will come to you. The rule doesn't say to spot shot values or shot location it says to spot shots. You can be spotting for an upcoming shot, trace of a shot going down range, or a shot that you just took to gather information downrange. A spotter in a shooting situation is someone that looks down range through an optical device to gather information to make an accurate shot. In the sport of prone individual rifle shooting the shooters are also the spotters and must make all of the calls to make an accurate shot themselves.

So a spotting scope is permitted for spotting shots.

What an incredibly stupid, dishonest rule set.

Go ahead and use bench rest equipment that allows bench rest technique but never forget we're pretending this isn't prone bench rest.

I don't know how to respond to this without using choice words, but this is just a dumb statement and I will leave it at that.

Prone shooting and benchrest shooting are two different skill sets and two different sports that use two different techniques. Some of the equipment may be used in both, but not all. As someone who has helped run and been a co-match director for the nationals in each of the respective sports, they are vastly different.

 

[Dave M.]

I’m grateful for the hours dedicated by those individuals. I can’t say that it has been entirely clear in the prior rules that free recoil had been disallowed, because it’s very easy to simply write that, - “free recoil is disallowed.”

“Firing from the shoulder” language has been in the rules, where the same rules elsewhere talk about a fully supported rifle with separate front and rear rests.

That could be construed as defining the basic a parameters of proximity and orientation (gun/shooter) that is permissible as well as keeping rifles somewhat traditional in appearance with butt stocks instead of just a bag rider.

The reason a clarification has been needed, if this was always the intent, is that the use of the shoulder to hold up the gun was indeed rendered moot by allowing complete artificial rests.

When a person holds a rifle off of the ground in the prone position, three parts of the body hold that rifle up, the fore-end hand, the pistol grip hand, and the shoulder. You could probably get by without the pistol grip hand, but you could not steady it without the shoulder.

So… when the shoulder’s shooting role gets eviscerated by allowing complete artificial rests front and rear, to me, it’s not all that clear what is trying to be accomplished with the “from the shoulder language” other than what I have mentioned.

A held rifle transmits all its recoil to the shooter. When we permitted the rifles to be artificially held, it went without saying that felt recoil would decrease. The early bipods could indeed terminate in spikes pressed into the ground. Bags and rests are massive and that is to resist something, movement under recoil, I do believe, and we all understand that.

So, I for one do understand, you have to be touching the butt. How much or little you touch it or try to resist movement is up to the shooter, but contact is needed.

People are so freaking wound up about free recoil. I say just get an adjustable hydraulic RAD 2A and you can play with the springs and hydraulic orifice size and dramatically change the recoil pulse. The force is the same, but it is first dampened and the “collision time” is significantly increased.
Dave

 

[kzin]

Right!!! I think the picture on the cover should be changed to something the more represents F-Class shooters, and with this thread it is hard to decide between a crying baby in diapers or a snowflake. Seriously, why does everyone have to nitpick at the rules when if they just used common sense and understanding of the sport (Spirit of F-Class) it is really easy to understand. The rules that people are nitpicking are some of the most cut and dry rules, but I guess people have to feel important and just have to bitch about something, or just have to comment to comment.


Think about it for a second and the answer will come to you. The rule doesn't say to spot shot values or shot location it says to spot shots. You can be spotting for an upcoming shot, trace of a shot going down range, or a shot that you just took to gather information downrange. A spotter in a shooting situation is someone that looks down range through an optical device to gather information to make an accurate shot. In the sport of prone individual rifle shooting the shooters are also the spotters and must make all of the calls to make an accurate shot themselves.

So a spotting scope is permitted for spotting shots.


I don't know how to respond to this without using choice words, but this is just a dumb statement and I will leave it at that.

Prone shooting and benchrest shooting are two different skill sets and two different sports that use two different techniques. Some of the equipment may be used in both, but not all. As someone who has helped run and been a co-match director for the nationals in each of the respective sports, they are vastly different.

Keep defending hypocrisy.
1. Allow equipment that enables aiming the rifle without touching it.
2. Establish thought police to make sure shooters are adequately pretending that's not true.

The only reason the benchrest technique of free recoil is an option is because we're using benchrest equipment.

It would be reasonable to restrict the equipment to force the shooter to aim the gun OR allow all techniques that use the legal equipment. Instead we go with an arbitrary, contradictory combination.

The 'this is not belly benchrest' philosophy failed when they allowed micro-adjustable front rests. Instead of either admitting the horse is gone or fixing the barn we have to pretend we still have a horse.

 

[Warren Dean]

Right!!! I think the picture on the cover should be changed to something the more represents F-Class shooters, and with this thread it is hard to decide between a crying baby in diapers or a snowflake. Seriously, why does everyone have to nitpick at the rules when if they just used common sense and understanding of the sport (Spirit of F-Class) it is really easy to understand. The rules that people are nitpicking are some of the most cut and dry rules, but I guess people have to feel important and just have to bitch about something, or just have to comment to comment.


Think about it for a second and the answer will come to you. The rule doesn't say to spot shot values or shot location it says to spot shots. You can be spotting for an upcoming shot, trace of a shot going down range, or a shot that you just took to gather information downrange. A spotter in a shooting situation is someone that looks down range through an optical device to gather information to make an accurate shot. In the sport of prone individual rifle shooting the shooters are also the spotters and must make all of the calls to make an accurate shot themselves.

So a spotting scope is permitted for spotting shots.


I don't know how to respond to this without using choice words, but this is just a dumb statement and I will leave it at that.

Prone shooting and benchrest shooting are two different skill sets and two different sports that use two different techniques. Some of the equipment may be used in both, but not all. As someone who has helped run and been a co-match director for the nationals in each of the respective sports, they are vastly different.

Well put, Matt. Don't let the trolls get to you. Trolls are gonna troll...

 

[600yards]

Thanks you guys for the time and hard work on creating our first F Class rule book. The only concern I have is the change (to be placed directly down into the rest). I have a Farley rest with a Edgewood and also a Protector bag the rifle lifts directly up easily but about half the time it will not go directly down because the sand on the ears caves in. My SEB NEO with the 3 piece seat belt bag with no clamping pressure lift’s up easy but most of the time it won’t go directly down I have to slide it in from the back and then it goes in easy. I don’t want to get in trouble for not being able to place the rifle directly down with no clamping pressure on the ears.
The rest may not mechanically capture the fore-end of the rifle in such a way that does not allow the rifle to be lifted directly up from the rest or to be placed directly down into the rest

 

[davidjoe]

We sure don’t seem to want to be confused with benchrest, do we? There is no question that former high power guys started F-Class. That doesn’t mean our gear today resembles it. Not only do they hold their guns while we do not, but they shoot standing up and sitting, again, holding their guns, themselves.

They STAND UP, swaying in the wind, holding out a rifle, while we challenge ourselves over the firmness of the sand in our rests. Touching the butt stock of a perfectly supported gun while laying prone does not make what we do like high power, we aren’t even close, let’s be real. They may be too polite to bluntly say that, but I’m not.

 

[dbramley]

Thanks you guys for the time and hard work on creating our first F Class rule book. The only concern I have is the change (to be placed directly down into the rest). I have a Farley rest with a Edgewood and also a Protector bag the rifle lifts directly up easily but about half the time it will not go directly down because the sand on the ears caves in. My SEB NEO with the 3 piece seat belt bag with no clamping pressure lift’s up easy but most of the time it won’t go directly down I have to slide it in from the back and then it goes in easy. I don’t want to get in trouble for not being able to place the rifle directly down with no clamping pressure on the ears.
The rest may not mechanically capture the fore-end of the rifle in such a way that does not allow the rifle to be lifted directly up from the rest or to be placed directly down into the rest

I could see this as an opportunity to interject “the spirit of f class” catch all. Would I think you having to wrestle your rifle into some floppy ear is an advantage? Not likely. Would I think this falls into the spirit of f class? Most likely. If you got called to the carpet for a violation, it is not up the the shooters or RO to interpret if a rule was broken, that is what a jury is for. If you could easily lift your rifle, straight up easily without manipulation I seriously doubt a jury is going to find that in violation.