F-Class @ Camp Perry - 2015

[DE-F-Open]

Attention F-Class Competitors:

I have been informed by NRA that there will be NO F-Class competition at Camp Perry in 2015.
The F-Class Great Lakes Long Range Regional will NOT be held in conjunction with the NRA's Long Range
National Championships in 2015.

I have been further informed that the NRA's 2015 F-Class Mid-Range National Championships will be held at Ben Avery Range in Phoenix, probably before the already scheduled F-Class Long Range Championships at Ben Avery in October.

I also understand that the 2016 F-Class Long Range National Championships will NOT be held at Camp Perry and that the current plan is for future F-Class National Championships, both Mid-Range and Long Range, to continue to move around the country.

When and if I have further information concerning these issues I will come back and post that information as it becomes available.

Hope this information helps folks plan for the 2015 season.

DE-F-Open

 

[Lbart]

John,
Good news!

 

[kyreloader]

John,
Good news!

Larry, Good News why?

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Very good news indeed. Must have been a fun meeting this past weekend.

 

[Medic505]

Terrific news. I'm very glad they listened!

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Yep. I guess it was worthwhile going to the shooters meeting on that Friday.

 

[Dos XX]

Seems like they listened which is great.

 

[Medic505]

A very big thank you to John Sigler and Earl Liebertrau for holding the meeting and representing F-Class competitors.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I see that the Mid-range will be right before the Long range next year. Will the Arizona Long Range Regional be around that time also? If it is, it will make for a VERY long week or two. Even having the MR and LR back to back, will make for a long week, with lots of ammo needed and maybe even different rifles.

The dates will need to be announced quickly so schedules can be made.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

"Seems like they were listening"

To whom????? All the guys that live in the SW? I was there..there was never mention of moving the Mid -Range, so let's get the facts straight.

I guess this is good news for the Avery bunch. It flat out sucks for everybody else. Another heavy handed move without input from the shooters..just like when we lost the 600 yr yardage for the Nationals. I was at the meeting and best I recall moving the mid range away from Perry was never discussed...although it seemed that one or two people felt their thoughts and ideals represented ALL shooters....Seems that very small few with their own plans are more important than the rest if the shooters from around the country. This whole deal carries the same foul smell as that of politics in DC.

A lot of schedule and vacations had already been made around Perry.

John..this is not aimed at you.

You're right. No one mentioned or asked for the mid-range to be moved this year (or any year) and no one was against LR going to Perry in 2016. The one thing an apparent majority was against was having LR moved permanently to one location.

I have no clue why they did the other stuff, it almost sounds like spite to me. One always needs to be careful what they wish for, but this was a little over the top. I'm hoping the 2016 LR are more central or even in the east. Can we go back to Lodi? Butner?

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

DE-F-Open - thank you for sharing what you have learned!

I will agree with the majority of the posters above, and in my opinon, it is VERY GOOD news to learn that the F-Class NATS, both LR and MR will move around the country.

Lets not get hung up on only the 2015 MR moving to Phoenix. While Jim, you are correct, MR was never discusses in Phoenix, I can see with the Plama World Championship being held at Perry in 2015, it might make some sense to get the F-Class MR out of there. If Phoenix is the answer for 2015, so be it, the bigger picture is the NRA listed to our voices about roaming the matches in general.

Now, we just need to give them our input, once again, as it relates to MR and LR both, and how WE want these matches to happen. Will everyone be pleased with every decision, nope, and we all know the Falconpilot is never happy anyway... Just kidding, Jim!!!!!!

Some examples:

Maybe MR happens in Spring, LR in the Fall? Or vice versa of course. LR at Perry in Aug, MR in Phoenix in Oct?

Maybe one year both MR and LR are back to back in Raton?

With the Berger SWNs already @ Avery, love to go out there for a MR NC match.

My point is this, big picture, this is a great thing for us long-term. John Sigler and Earl Leibetreau - THANK YOU fro coming out and listenign to our group. Thank you also fro taking what was shared back to the NRA HPC and sharing this with them. THANK YOU finally to the entire HPC for hearing us, and giving us flexibility to make of OUR matches what WE want from them.

 

[Dos XX]

I didn't catch the part about the mid range moving

I think moving it around the country is a good thing. However, if moving it around the country means only Phoenix & Raton, then it isn't moving around the country much. I am not against having it at Perrry using an F Class format. I just don't want it to be there permanently.

That said, Falcon Pilot made a good point at the meeting, I haven't shot at Perry, so I am guilty of prejudging. It is a lot closer to me than Phoenix. I might have a different outlook after shooting there. I would go if it is there.

No impact berm worries me, though I haven't shot there, so uncertainty is what I have. I worry what it would do to pit service. Weather at the time of year of the match is also a concern to me. I will say I think Phoenix probably has the least chance of a rain out among all the places considered. But, having at Phoenix permanently is not fair to those that dwell further east.

I will likely shoot where ever it is.

 

[Immike]

Camp Perry seemed perfect for the natls. We had already made plans to attend everything next year after going to the Great Lakes match. Having a source of manpower such as all the young people stationed there made good sense to me. We certainly enjoyed our trip this year.

 

[Petros284]

I am Frustrated about Perry. It had great potential. It is very hard for many of us to have the time and resources to travel across country. If it is true that the nationals will move around I vote that it is East one year and West the next. Remember we want to grow F-Class, and not keep catering to the same people over and over. Politics needs to be kept out of this game and we need to work together to improve what we have and keep it going. Yes, I am a little worked up about this and will get over it, but will really miss the opportunities that Camp Perry was going to offer us.

 

[clowdis]

Mark

Exactly "who" decides where the shoots will be held? I'm curious to know? 2014, 2015 and 2016 I believe (LR) are all being held in Phoenix..now the 2015 Mid-Range..how is this being moved around? Who is the "we" you speak of, no disrespect to you of course.

I believe you have to apply to the NRA for your club or range to host an event like the Nationals. If no other clubs other than the range at Phoenix apply then the matches will always be held at Phoenix. It will be up to Northstate Shooting Club (Butner) or Winnequah (Lodi) or any other club with large enough facilities to apply to get it out of Phoenix or Raton. Frankly I believe that the NRA would like to see everything at Raton, it's their range and they make most of the profit there.

 

[falconpilot]

Thank you John and Earl for your time and work.

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

You're right. No one mentioned or asked for the mid-range to be moved this year (or any year) and no one was against LR going to Perry in 2016. The one thing an apparent majority was against was having LR moved permanently to one location.

I have no clue why they did the other stuff, it almost sounds like spite to me. One always needs to be careful what they wish for, but this was a little over the top. I'm hoping the 2016 LR are more central or even in the east. Can we go back to Lodi? Butner?

I really disagree with a lot of this.

There were many people against moving the LR to Perry in 2016 as basically we were told that our format would cease. We would be forced to follow the Perry format, 20 shot matches plus shootoffs for the relay winners only. While nobody objected to Perry, there was substntial objection if this also meant a format change.

Spite? I think not. I think they listed to us and while there may be some consternation about MR 2015, again, if you'll think big picture this, moving matches are the history of our discipline. They are allowing us to continue to keep this history rather than mandating a change.

Lodi is not big enough to handle a FCNC in its current form (maybe they will expand now that coming back is an option), and Butner - you're at the will of the NG I believe.

 

[Scott Harris]

That's great news and the NRA listened to the one thing the vast majority of competitors had an opinion on: do not make the nationals permanently at Perry. I thank the NRA leadership for listening.

It has become clear from different discussions, that there are only a handful of ranges around the country that are large enough to accommodate a big match like the nationals: Lodi, Butner, Raton, Ben Avery, Perry, and one of the NorCal Sites (Sac Valley or Coalinga?). Are there any other 1K ranges with 50 or more firing points?

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

If it is true that the nationals will move around I vote that it is East one year and West the next. Remember we want to grow F-Class, and not keep catering to the same people over and over.

Bingo! The HPC deciding that BOTH matches will move the very best way to accomplish this goal, IMO. Why, now it gives each side of the country the abiltiy to host both a MR and LR Champ in the same year. As a shooter out west, maybe you make one and not the other, and if they reverse MR and LR the next year, then the next year you make the other match since it's now close. That was not the possible before.

With having two roaming matches, it should be a bit easier to get more of the country involved.

All that being said, the big limitation is range capacity, and ability of a range to hold a FCNC, either MR or LR.

 

[Steve Blair]

As a shooter out west, maybe you make one and not the other, and if they reverse MR and LR the next year, then the next year you make the other match since it's now close.

[br]
Is Houston west, Mark? Not from my perspective.