Eric Cortina's 500 yard BlackJack Challenge

[davidjoe]

I tried these, guys. The advantage isn’t what we’d expect. Erik has a 2 minute timer. Staying on target is key. These are great guns, too.

The upside of the .308 is the magazine and my 175 SMK’s are happy together.

That AR is a brick. Lead stocked. Heaviest of these three. By far the fastest obviously.

 

[Jonnyofalltrades]

Did you see the poor guys trying to use a Mosin Nagant of all things with un tested milsurp ammo for the open sight challenge?!! oh my I applaud the ambition but that would be far from my desired iron sight rifle for the task.

And then the surplus ammo locks it up! Poor guy. I have seen Mosin Nagants crank out some excellent groups, considering how rough they are, but an untried lot of ammo??!!

 

[Florida Wally]

This is my secret plan because I don’t think you can see the smaller ones.

Measure and mock up the target. Take my best iron sight gun and the mockup outside and practice the click value down the rack, aiming only at the biggest square.

I’m pulling for you David. Personally, I think if the wind is calm, with a little luck, you will be able to blackjack the targets. If it is windy, you will need a lot of luck.

 

[davidjoe]

I’m pulling for you David. Personally, I think if the wind is calm, with a little luck, you will be able to blackjack the targets. If it is windy, you will need a lot of luck.

I also have the M1A Supermatch. It’s a tack driver with the 175’s. It’s a true two stage trigger, which for pressured shooting really helps me. Although this seems like a trivial thought, it’s also a fatter bullet, and those skinny right end targets need any advantage possible.

Erik is good with either /or. Of the two, that Supermatch is more endearing as a gun to own. I’ll compare the two here with an update.

 

[SSchnd]

Through the peep sight, at 200 yards.

View attachment 1537585

A Mosin Nagant didn’t pull off the impossible.

Because it’s not Merican. I’m volunteering to embarrass myself. That dot at 200 yards isn’t that easy to see, and it’s bigger than 1 moa! It’s far thinner than the post.

But, good gracious will the gun shoot flat. 2 minutes for 12 shots on six targets leaves me no time to mess around with a bolt action forcing a difficult requisition of the target.

But, my favorite rounds need to suck their guts in to fit in a magazine. How can I pull off 80 grainers in the magazine?

We do not shoot 80s in mag in Ye ole service rifle but one can sling up and load and shoot a lot of single loaded rounds in two minutes

Be awful tuff the shoot the A2 looking for tiny plates instead of a round black bull
I’m with ya though as I was trying to figure out what irons rig would work
03A3 AR or maybe a Palma rifle with good sights
Be a tall task
Edit to add at five hundred I’d roll stout 77’s or maybe a VLD 75 and shoot sling from five hundred that way you don’t need to load each round
Super match would be sweet

 

[Topstrap]

Been watching his videos, very good challenge. The metallic sight challenge is very intriguing since we shoot them in rimfire and centerfire matches, I tell everyone if the target can be seen it can be hit as easily with peeps as with a scoped gun. Targets smaller than the eye can see without magnification can also be hit but you have to know where to hold.

His challenge sounds great and if we weren't in Ohio it would be fun to try. The comments made by many in his comments show most have no idea what you don't see before during or after the shot. Davidjo has the right idea holding on what you can see and dial. But you have to know what to dial. It should be easy to figure his target spacing based on captures of his video and known target sizes.

A scoped competitor looks thru his scope, observes the mirage, checks the wind flag and makes an adjustment. He fires and observes his hit or miss and easily makes an adjustment using the reticle. They can see what is happening out there most times and makes an adjustment. Yes sometimes the mirage is bad or the impact/miss is in a shadow its tough.

A metallic sight shooter unless they have the eyes of an eagle can't see mirage or wind hints at that distance. He hopes for a hit cause if he misses he sure isn't going to be able to tell where it went especially if it's close. Even if it's a hit they don't know where on the plate it impacted, could be an edge hit or center. They have zero feedback to use. They move to next plate with same results. Another thing with multiple targets in a row, they have to be far enough apart to see individually or if close together you have to hold on first and dial for each. At distance when too close together they'll appear as a blurred white line with no distinct separation.

I personally feel it can be done, it's just that a peep sight shooter needs some form of retrieving usable data to continue on. Imagine if the instant a scoped shooter fires his scope is blocked, no feedback for his next shot. He isn't able to see where that shot went, he can't check to see if wind changed and he continues. I guess that is why there is a $5000 reward for doing it but you can't expect them to do that in those varying conditions with no way of being able to make knowledgeable corrections.

From all the years having metallic sighted guns shooting my longrange rimfire matches, using at Rayners 1000 yard steel plate matches and even ringing the 18" steel plate at Thunder Valley we've seen some great shooting with results not far off the scoped competitors scores. I think someone could get a Blackjack with a metallic sighted gun quicker than he thinks but you gotta give them a chance. I get the idea he doesn't allow a spotter for the peep competitor but if so then that changes a lot.

Topstrap

 

[davidjoe]

Been watching his videos, very good challenge. The metallic sight challenge is very intriguing since we shoot them in rimfire and centerfire matches, I tell everyone if the target can be seen it can be hit as easily with peeps as with a scoped gun. Targets smaller than the eye can see without magnification can also be hit but you have to know where to hold.

His challenge sounds great and if we weren't in Ohio it would be fun to try. The comments made by many in his comments show most have no idea what you don't see before during or after the shot. Davidjo has the right idea holding on what you can see and dial. But you have to know what to dial. It should be easy to figure his target spacing based on captures of his video and known target sizes.

A scoped competitor looks thru his scope, observes the mirage, checks the wind flag and makes an adjustment. He fires and observes his hit or miss and easily makes an adjustment using the reticle. They can see what is happening out there most times and makes an adjustment. Yes sometimes the mirage is bad or the impact/miss is in a shadow its tough.

A metallic sight shooter unless they have the eyes of an eagle can't see mirage or wind hints at that distance. He hopes for a hit cause if he misses he sure isn't going to be able to tell where it went especially if it's close. Even if it's a hit they don't know where on the plate it impacted, could be an edge hit or center. They have zero feedback to use. They move to next plate with same results.

I personally feel it can be done, it's just that a peep sight shooter needs some form of retrieving usable data to continue on. Imagine if the instant a scoped shooter fires his scope is blocked, no feedback for his next shot. He isn't able to see where that shot went, he can't check to see if wind changed and he continues. I guess that is why there is a $5000 reward for doing it but you can't expect them to do that in those varying conditions with no way of being able to make knowledgeable corrections.

From all the years having metallic sighted guns shooting my longrange rimfire matches, using at Rayners 1000 yard steel plate matches and even ringing the 18" steel plate at Thunder Valley we've seen some great shooting with results not far off the scoped competitors scores. I think someone could get a Blackjack with a metallic sighted gun quicker than he thinks but you gotta give them a chance. I get the idea he doesn't allow a spotter for the peep competitor but if so then that changes a lot.

Topstrap

I thought I could hear the other Mosin shooter spotting, in the background.

 

[Topstrap]

I thought I could hear the other Mosin shooter spotting, in the background.

That would be great. I think many will be amazed. Don't underestimate a seasoned longrange peep sight shooter.

Thanks, I'll check out the video.

Hadn't seen episode 8. Pretty cool but really came unprepared, can't think of one thing in their favor except for enthusiasm. I did hear a spotter in the background which really would help and make that game doable. We have a model 11 Savage with a Bartlein 6XC barrel set up with adjustable aperatures on both ends. Made the rear mount and combo muzzlebrake/barrel mount for the front sight. I should see if Tom would let me make up a similiar rack and hang it at Rayners to practice on. BE a fun challenge.



Topstrap

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Did you see the poor guys trying to use a Mosin Nagant of all things with un tested milsurp ammo for the open sight challenge?!! oh my I applaud the ambition but that would be far from my desired iron sight rifle for the task.

I would have got in my truck and left after the 3rd shot if I was Erik

 

[SSchnd]

Through the peep sight, at 200 yards.

View attachment 1537585

A Mosin Nagant didn’t pull off the impossible.

Because it’s not Merican. I’m volunteering to embarrass myself. That dot at 200 yards isn’t that easy to see, and it’s bigger than 1 moa! It’s far thinner than the post.

But, good gracious will the gun shoot flat. 2 minutes for 12 shots on six targets leaves me no time to mess around with a bolt action forcing a difficult requisition of the target.

But, my favorite rounds need to suck their guts in to fit in a magazine. How can I pull off 80 grainers in the magazine?

Have that same CMP Bushmaster A2 . was my first XTC rifle. Still works if I can see the post clearly.

 

[davidjoe]

What a rainy, muddy range day. But it meant no one else interrupted and both iron sight guns got a true 500 zero. Erik is fine with masking taping these scopes thoroughly and that’s better than removing them.

To use the AR magazine, I basically could resort to Federal GMM with their Berger 73’s. I absolutely forgot bring the M1A magazine. That was a pain.

Factory box on paper is the first picture. But the Supermatch and my own load of SMK 175’s shot better. That’s the second picture. I put more rounds down than this to get them on, but these are representative. The Federal factory aren’t as good as my stout loads of SMK moly bullets but those simply have a lot to go to fit. Maybe I’ll see but my last memory of trying this is that it doesn’t work.

The Supermatch gets the benefit of hand loads and that is the difference. Targets are tiny at 500. I don’t think a 2” x 2” over dirt is visible at 500 yards.

These high contrast 8-1/2 x 11 inch pages show me. 12” 12” will be fine, but it may well be click time after it. The swingers are ~4 inches apart, rising to the right.

Next range session I’ll find out how good or bad Spingfield Armory’s windage sights are. They do feel positive.

 

[Sandstorm]

Sounds like your going to give it a go then...once you decide on rifle and load,...
I do commend you Sir. A huge undertaking for sure.
I feel you have a good shot at this....and putting in the foot work as well.

 

[davidjoe]

Sounds like your going to give it a go then...once you decide on rifle and load,...
I do commend you Sir. A huge undertaking for sure.
I feel you have a good shot at this....and putting in the foot work as well.

This challenge makes me wonder if my eyes are up to the test. The left three swingers need to pray.

If I were to hit center mass the 12”, and was able to keep that same hold:

Then its 3 minutes right to center of 10”

Then 2.5 minutes right to center of 8”

Then 2 minutes and favor right to center of 6”

Then 2 minutes right and slide back toward center, for the 4”

Then 1.5 minutes right.

I’ll photograph a freeze frame to refine this but it’s fairly close.

 

[davidjoe]

3 days to go. Finally weather conditions to get serious. Let’s see how long before other range shooters show up and disrupt me.





To my amazement the 80’s could be crunched down to fit the magazine. 2 guns in play.

There are six squares but it’s cropped to be size-accepted.

 

[davidjoe]

I’ll be damned this concept just might work!

80 SMK moly,

1) 0

2) plus SIX clicks right;

3)) plus FIVE clicks rights.





Time to get the big gun!

 

[davidjoe]

0;
Plus 6;
Plus 6;
Plus 5;
Plus 4;
Plus 3.

The smallest 2 targets were glanced along with number 2.

Now it’s time to save that ammo and shoot the big gun.






AR platform it will be. More confidence in the clicks’ values and repeatability. Sorry Supermatch, backup gun status.

 

[Sandstorm]

Give em hell my friend…
You have a great plan and id say it’s coming together as well.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I just watched all three (3) of them. Very interesting concept indeed. The thing that I noticed on a large percentage of the shooters though were the feed issues. It seems like about 50% of them at one point or another had feeding issues. The one (1) guy had ejection issues that were the cause, but what is the story on the others? Just seems like an awful lot of issues for guns that are so meticulously put together and maintained.

I don't own a firearm like any of those in the videos. I'm primarily bolt action hunting rifles, so this is interesting to me. Curious to see what you all thought about that?

Ya I don't understand that one bit either. A $5K+ rifle that has feeding/extraction issues is about garbage...

My 700s and Howa 1500 haven't had 1 single feeding or extraction issue in thousands and thousands of rounds on the contrary haha.

 

[kyotekiller25]

We have a local MOA match that does a 10", 5" and 2" steel at 1K.

No one has hit the 2" yet. It's ridiculously hard... Pretty tough to even see the 2" circle at 1K with 20-35x scopes.

Pretty much everyone cleans house on the 5" and 10" though.

 

[Florida Wally]

View attachment 1540052

That is pretty amazing! Im glad to see your plan come together. Sorry to hear that you aren’t going to shoot your M1A. I’ve been thinking you would be a winner for just showing up with that rifle. Best of luck!