Custom Action worth the money?

[Cody Richardson]

Have a tricked out Remington 700 and a defiance deviant. The built in recoil lug and rail
Is really really nice plus the action is just smooth as butter!!! Both of them are tack drivers but I think my custom action wins. Plan on shooting both as tactical match rifles this year as well as fclass

 

[LHSmith]

For a Jewell trigger, check the marketplace, under Commercial sales by paid sponsers, Larry Scott. An excellent source of Jewell triggers.

In addition to all the other advantages of a custom receiver, one that is very important to me is the ability to swap barrels between the same makers receivers. The tolerances are held that close. I have 2, Bat SV receivers and am able to swap any and all barrels threaded for the Bats. I have bought used barrels from as far as Missouri, (I'm in Pa.), and am able to screw it on and have perfect headspace. They are all inter-changable.

Many of the custom receivers are also available with dual bolt faces, will handle both BR and ppc cartridges.

I have four BAT's two SV's a B and a DS and I can say that the barrels threaded for my first SV will NOT screw into the other SV, B or the DS........the threads are slightly larger in diameter........Kiwi

Correct, one has to be aware of the various models made by the custom action maker, and some are offered in coned or flat bolt faces......which requires different machining interfaces.

 

[fdshuster]

Kiwi: I have an older Bat SV and one that I bought new a year ago, A total of 6 barrels fit both receivers with the identical headspace lengths. A 7 year old Stolle Panda with 3 barrels that fit that receiver. All these barrels came from different sources. That's been my experience.

Could it be that whoever threaded the problem barrels did not follow the specs when cutting the threads?

 

[ridgeway]

Like the old saying, "Once you go BAT, you never go back!". LOL

 

[flatlander]

I've built myself several rifles on M700 actions, and most of them will shoot about as well as any of the four built around BAT 3L & 3LL actions, one Nesika K, and two Pierce TGs in Elesio R5 & RTS tubeguns. I've only built one 700 that was a disappointment; its custom bbl was chambered for 6.5x47, and was undoubtedly the pickiest, most finicky rifle I've yet owned. I do agree that using a PTG bolt seems to help insure accuracy, and I prefer the mini M16 extractor to the stamped one in OEM 700 bolts.

I was comparing my current favorite M700 in 260 Imp 30* to the Pierce TG in the RTS last week, and there's no question that the Pierce's bolt runs a whole lot slicker than the PTG custom bolt in the 700. Don't know how much that's worth to anyone that's not shooting rapid fire strings in NRA XC HP matches, but regardless, it's nice.

In my view, unless you're doing your own gunsmithing on truing a 700 (or other factory action), then there's little question that you're ahead to go with a custom action. If I'm going to use the factory bolt, I first send it out to Greg Tannel to have the boltface bushed & firing pin reduced to .061", then grind & turn the knob off the handle so I can thread it for a homemade custom knob. If you're paying for that work, you've just dropped almost enough $$$ to pay for a PTG bolt.

Several times over the past couple of years, I've thought seriously about selling most of my rifles built on M700s to finance the purchase of a couple of Stiller or Pierce actions, but haven't followed through on it. Three of my 700s shoot better than I can hold, and two of them already have PTG custom bolts, so what's to be gained? If it comes down to simple pride of ownership, I've done all the work on the rifles in question (aside from bushing the boltface on the one remaining OEM bolt), and am very happy with the way they shoot.

Back to the OP's original question - I've barreled several Stiller Predator actions, and three Surgeon M591s. The Surgeons do seem to be a little slicker; the only thing I don't care for is that their built-in scope rail doesn't extend forward far enough to suit my purposes.

 

[Tulo2tass2]

Flatlander,

Why do you prefer the mini 16 extractor? And why do you like the firing pin to be .061"?

And regarding the PTG bolt, is it worth it to go that route if I am just looking for the smoothest bolt manipulation?

Thanks

 

[flatlander]

I've seen too many of the factory extractors fail on M700s - and as often as not, replacing them with a new extractor doesn't completely fix the problem. Not sure what that problem is, unless the factory bolt head didn't get the extractor groove machined correctly. At any rate, I've not been inclined to try to fix a glitch like that, and have instead replaced such bolts with PTG customs. When you order from PTG, you specify which style extractor cut & kit you want - OEM, Sako, or mini M16. Get the mini M16 - it's more robust & easier to install than the Sako. This is the extractor Howa bolts use, and I've yet to see an extraction problem with one of their bolts.

As far as the .061" FP dia. goes - it may not be any better than the nominal .072" FP that comes on factory bolts, but that's what we get when we have Gre Tan bush the boltface, and the combination of minimal clearance between the .061" FP & the hole in Greg's bushing stops primer cratering - I won't do a 6BR or Dasher build w/o having the boltface bushed, or going with a PTG custom with the smaller FP dia.

Probably the best way to get smooth bolt operation in a 700 is to have a gunsmith ream the action's bolt raceway true, then order a custom bolt with a body dia. .002"-.003" smaller than the reamer used on the raceway. That gets rid of the slop that's usually present with a factory bolt, as well as most binding that might possibly be present with a slightly warped raceway. Remember, most factory actions are heat treated after being machined, thus the likelihood of warping due to unequal amounts of metal machined away for the ejection port & mag well. Fluted bolts look neat, but a smooth bolt body will probably cycle smoother.

 

[dreever]

My vote goes to the Surgeon 591 action. GA Precision likes them so that's good enough for me.

Danny

 

[GSPV]

The least expensive way to get a super smooth M700 is to sell it and buy a BAT, Borden, etc.

 

[butchlambert]

I have a gunsmith friend who shoots a Remington SA with a PTG bolt, and if you close your eyes and work the bolt, you cannot tell it from a Bat, Borden, Defiance or Panda. And it shoots quite well. just another option for you to consider.

I felt a thing or 2 with my eyes closed. When I opened my eyes I saw coyote ugly.

Like the old saying, "Once you go BAT, you never go back!". LOL
Ridgeway, I sure don't buy that statement. They are good and I shoot one, but I like my Pierce and my Stiller Diamondback drop port is the smoothest receiver that I have owned. That is except my 30-40 Krag.

This is my Grandson's 600 Remington. It is a very fine receiver, but I could have bought a custom for the amount invested.

 

[Raythemanroe]

I like the swing safety

 

[butchlambert]

Straight from PT&G.

 

[jonbearman]

Butch you did a great job on that 600 reciever.It looks like a custom.

 

[nra-for-life]

Your going to come into a forum of conpetition competition target shooters and ask if a custom action is worth the money? Hmmmm I wonde r what the answer will be

 

[butchlambert]

Your going to come into a forum of competition competition target shooters and ask if a custom action is worth the money? Hmmmm I wonde r what the answer will be

I really don't think it matters what forum that you are on, if a truly squared up(blueprinted) receiver is done to match a custom, it will cost right at the price of a custom. Why do that as mentioned above, the custom will bring more money in a sale.

 

[Kiwishooter]

Kiwi: I have an older Bat SV and one that I bought new a year ago, A total of 6 barrels fit both receivers with the identical headspace lengths. A 7 year old Stolle Panda with 3 barrels that fit that receiver. All these barrels came from different sources. That's been my experience.

Could it be that whoever threaded the problem barrels did not follow the specs when cutting the threads?

How old is your older BAT?
The same person fitted (a top US gunsmith) the barrels for all my actions, my first BAT SV is a 2 digit serial number (5x) all the others are 3 digit (starting at 24x), and I can say the barrels fitted to the early SV have exactly the same wiggle as the barrels fitted to the latter actions..........but while the latter barrels do screw into the early action, admittedly with a bit more wiggle than the barrels fitted for it, the barrels for the early action do not fit into the latter actions. There is no problem with headspace just the size of the threads. This is what I've found with my 4 BATS.

I have also come across Panda's where the barrels won't interchange, and also where the headspace is a few thou different. I've even seen some where the bolt's won't interchange........wouldn't have thought it but I have seen it, in a small sample of about 12 Panda's ranging from the early 90's to as late as 2010, these are just my observations from the rifle's I've seen.......kiwi

 

[butchlambert]

Kiwi: I have an older Bat SV and one that I bought new a year ago, A total of 6 barrels fit both receivers with the identical headspace lengths. A 7 year old Stolle Panda with 3 barrels that fit that receiver. All these barrels came from different sources. That's been my experience.

Could it be that whoever threaded the problem barrels did not follow the specs when cutting the threads?

How old is your older BAT?
The same person fitted (a top US gunsmith) the barrels for all my actions, my first BAT SV is a 2 digit serial number (5x) all the others are 3 digit (starting at 24x), and I can say the barrels fitted to the early SV have exactly the same wiggle as the barrels fitted to the latter actions..........but while the latter barrels do screw into the early action, admittedly with a bit more wiggle than the barrels fitted for it, the barrels for the early action do not fit into the latter actions. There is no problem with headspace just the size of the threads.......kiwi

Kiwi, I think you nailed it.

 

[Trovan]

From what I have seen at some of the bigger tactical matches, these are the most popular custom actions. (not necessarily in this order)

Surgeon

Templar

Stiller

Bat Tactical

Bighorn

They are all great actions and I challenge anyone to say that one shoots better than the other. Probably the least expensive is the Stiller TAC30 Bugholes.com usually has them in stock for under 1K.

I have seen them all and I really like the feel of the BAT Tactical (not to be confused with any other BAT action) The melanite treatment on this action makes it extremely smooth.

I have been shooting a Templar since they were introduced. It is great. If I were to get something else right now it would either be a BAT tactical or a Bighorn. The BAT is awesome as are all BAT actions and very smooth. I am intrigued with the Bighorn. It has all the great features of the Remington design but also has a floating bolt head like the Savage. Thats just my preference. They all shoot (as does a blueprinted Remington 700)

 

[butchlambert]

So the Bighorn is like a Shilen?

 

[Trovan]

So the Bighorn is like a Shilen?

Yes...I have not seen one but it appears to be very similar