So how long does it actually take to cycle one load? Have you timed some to get an average? ie throw powder into pan, trickle to weight, remove pan and dump into cartridge?
Equivalent Scale to Gempro 250
- Thread starter jesilva
- Start date
So how long does it actually take to cycle one load? Have you timed some to get an average? ie throw powder into pan, trickle to weight, remove pan and dump into cartridge?
Infrequent Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
Tesoro, I have not used one. Someone will chime in and let us know.
Infrequent Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
@Infrequent Shooter
Ever figure out which nickle was the heavy one?
The first thing one needs to do is figure out what you want the scale to do.
Make a list of weight values, tolerances, and speed of measurement that will make you happy.
Powder charges of 30gr, 50gr, 70 gr? Is +/- 1/10 grain good enough?
Sorting brass, 110gr, 150gr, 200gr, to the nearest 1/2gr?
Sorting bullets, 40gr, 80gr 112gr, 200gr, to the nearest 1/10 grain?
Maybe even sorting a box of 1000 primers to +/-0.02 grains?
The next thing to decide is how much you are ready to spend.
There are scales in the $20 range that might be good enough, maybe $50, $300, and then of course the more expensive ones. Maybe you want a scale with automated charging/trickle. Will it work for all the measurements you want to make? Would a two step weighing 'system' with a dispenser followed by a more precise digital scale? How about a cheap scale for less demanding work and a better one for weighing that really has to be spot on? A beam scale in good condition might work but sorting components would be a pain. A single scale for all measurements in the reloading room might not be the answer.
If your scale is not LINEAR, a full scale calibration without check weights tells you little.
A full scale calibration weight might be required or a digital scale might not complete the calibration but has little to do with accuracy at typical charge weights. Error in a 50 GRAM calibration weight that is 50 milligrams high or low, 49.950g to 50.050g (+/- 0.1%) will likely disappear when weighing powder charges. 30grains +/- 0.1 % due to full scale calibration error is +/- 0.03 grains. Zero drift (seen or hidden), linearity error, resolution and repeatability will likely be bigger than full scale calibration error. That's where check weights come in handy. Accuracy requirements for smaller check weights will be more stringent.
Be ready to figure grams to grains and percent of value. Look up weight tolerances. Better weights may cost more than your scale. Cheap Chinese magnetic steel weights, or old grain calibration sets might not be good enough. Stainless Steel non-magnetic weights of known value and treated gently will last MANY years, even without recalibration.
Good environmental conditions and having known Accurate and Stable (repeatable) check weights NEAR your target is an absolute necessity to check scale performance. You will NEED both check weights and calibration weights. You should probably try to have the ability to CHECK scale performance better than your accuracy requirements for normal use.
Using anything other than a check weight of KNOWN value will BITE you if something happens to the weight and you have to obtain another. Sorting and weighing aren't really the same thing.
Battery power and AC power might help troubleshooting drift and zero problems. Don't be afraid to occasionally hit the Tare/Zero button on cheaper scales.
With a cheapo scale, maybe a 150 pound granite block set in a sandbox, with a power conditioner (not just a surge protector), a wind shield, anti-static wrist straps, barefoot on a anti-static mat, temperature and humidity controlled environment, just might help.
@Infrequent Shooter
Ever figure out which nickle was the heavy one?
The first thing one needs to do is figure out what you want the scale to do.
Make a list of weight values, tolerances, and speed of measurement that will make you happy.
Powder charges of 30gr, 50gr, 70 gr? Is +/- 1/10 grain good enough?
Sorting brass, 110gr, 150gr, 200gr, to the nearest 1/2gr?
Sorting bullets, 40gr, 80gr 112gr, 200gr, to the nearest 1/10 grain?
Maybe even sorting a box of 1000 primers to +/-0.02 grains?
The next thing to decide is how much you are ready to spend.
There are scales in the $20 range that might be good enough, maybe $50, $300, and then of course the more expensive ones. Maybe you want a scale with automated charging/trickle. Will it work for all the measurements you want to make? Would a two step weighing 'system' with a dispenser followed by a more precise digital scale? How about a cheap scale for less demanding work and a better one for weighing that really has to be spot on? A beam scale in good condition might work but sorting components would be a pain. A single scale for all measurements in the reloading room might not be the answer.
If your scale is not LINEAR, a full scale calibration without check weights tells you little.
A full scale calibration weight might be required or a digital scale might not complete the calibration but has little to do with accuracy at typical charge weights. Error in a 50 GRAM calibration weight that is 50 milligrams high or low, 49.950g to 50.050g (+/- 0.1%) will likely disappear when weighing powder charges. 30grains +/- 0.1 % due to full scale calibration error is +/- 0.03 grains. Zero drift (seen or hidden), linearity error, resolution and repeatability will likely be bigger than full scale calibration error. That's where check weights come in handy. Accuracy requirements for smaller check weights will be more stringent.
Be ready to figure grams to grains and percent of value. Look up weight tolerances. Better weights may cost more than your scale. Cheap Chinese magnetic steel weights, or old grain calibration sets might not be good enough. Stainless Steel non-magnetic weights of known value and treated gently will last MANY years, even without recalibration.
Good environmental conditions and having known Accurate and Stable (repeatable) check weights NEAR your target is an absolute necessity to check scale performance. You will NEED both check weights and calibration weights. You should probably try to have the ability to CHECK scale performance better than your accuracy requirements for normal use.
Using anything other than a check weight of KNOWN value will BITE you if something happens to the weight and you have to obtain another. Sorting and weighing aren't really the same thing.
Battery power and AC power might help troubleshooting drift and zero problems. Don't be afraid to occasionally hit the Tare/Zero button on cheaper scales.
With a cheapo scale, maybe a 150 pound granite block set in a sandbox, with a power conditioner (not just a surge protector), a wind shield, anti-static wrist straps, barefoot on a anti-static mat, temperature and humidity controlled environment, just might help.
Rocketvapor, according to this balance the nickel commemorative appears to be lighter. Wow, took me about 30 minutes. This is an old Pacific scale, balance only, no markings. I had to close the door to my office to avoid draft. Amazingly delicate. The weights are labeled Pacific Grain Weights and come in a small tin. I hope I got it right.
Duralumin Pacific Weights on the second little tin. Beautiful little contraption.
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Neat scale! I just bought this one on ebay for 40 bucks delivered.
Infrequent Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
Great taste. I like the wood base. Mine is not attached to anything. very nice setup. leveling screws too!
As best as I could tell the old nickle is pretty darn close to 5.000 grams, the commemorative one is
half a milligram light.
half a milligram light.
I would like to know the time comparison. I could do around 200 an hour with my beam scale set up but rarely, if ever, do more than 1/2 hr at a time; or 50. I don’t there is much subjective to it if view angle is fixed and trickle up is done consistently.
I would like to know the time comparison. I can do around 200 an hour with my beam scale set up but rarely do more than 1/2 hr at a time; or 50. I don’t there is much subjective to it if view angle is fixed and trickle up is done consistently.
Be fun to clean up and see how tunable and repetitive it is. gun room decor!
Infrequent Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
HOT DAMN, I feel like I passed the bonus question in highschool Algebra II. Woohoo!
I have no idea what the time comparison would be, but it picks up trickler grains almost instantly.
DirtySteve
Gold $$ Contributor
Just curious if anyone has used one of these.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
Infrequent Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
I am going to a digital scale, but I am a sucker for a quality beam scale. I just bought a clean Ohaus 505 scale. What I am curious about is
1. how accurate a 50grain lyman check weight is?
2. how accurate is a vintage 5 gram Ohaus check weight? They came in a little plastic case, mine has 9 weights and sections for very small test weights. I think they were sold to colleges. "Sto-A-Weigh"
Infrequent Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
I am getting one of these this week.
I have an OLD one. Accurate, but does have a little drift. Tares out OK.
Load cell is SMALL and Delicate.
Load cell is SMALL and Delicate.
I think that one of the reason that this scale responds so well is that it is working at a higher percentage of its load limit. Load cells work by bending something and stretching something that varies in resistance with the amount of stretch. My theory is that if the load is small compared to the limit that the action will be less repeatable, but that is just my working theory.
I agree. A milligram on a 20 gram/300grain full scale should be easy.
Getting a milligram on a 100 or 200 gram scale requires much better components.
Doable but it will cost you.
For powder charges, sensitivity to small changes, like a kernel of powder is as much of a concern as scale accuracy. I think many folks are misled when calibration happens at a much higher weight such as 50 or 100 grams. That's where you have to rely on the linearity of the scale for small values. Even some of the more expensive scales have a 'linearity' specs of a few counts. Go into the advertised specs of some more expensive scales and calculate all error components at a charge load of 2 or 3 grams.
Another thing folks seldom check out is the ability to CALIBRATE at less than full scale.
The little scale you like can be calibrated (cal mode, press Mode or Tare to change cal weight) at 2 grams, 5 grams, 9 grams
, or the full scale of 20grams. Using a couple check weights you can find a range that compensates for linearity error where you plan on using it.
For example, cal @ 5g, it's seems to be linear to within a count from 1g to 5g. Still drifts a count or so though. For $20 it's a bargain. Easily sensitive enough to SEE one kernel of Varget.
While I like the dual range A&D EJ54-D2 (22g and 54g) it does cost a lot more.
(not as much as some scales though)
You can also pick the cal value. I use 10 gram cal on the 22 gram range.
Another cheapy, not for powder charges, but useful for heavier bullets and brass is shown in the attached pic. 500 grams, 0.01 gram resolution, good to maybe 0.02 gram if you pick a good full scale value to calibrate at.
Check your scale to see if you can PICK the calibration value. Might be able to 'dial out' some error where you want to use it.
Getting a milligram on a 100 or 200 gram scale requires much better components.
Doable but it will cost you.
For powder charges, sensitivity to small changes, like a kernel of powder is as much of a concern as scale accuracy. I think many folks are misled when calibration happens at a much higher weight such as 50 or 100 grams. That's where you have to rely on the linearity of the scale for small values. Even some of the more expensive scales have a 'linearity' specs of a few counts. Go into the advertised specs of some more expensive scales and calculate all error components at a charge load of 2 or 3 grams.
Another thing folks seldom check out is the ability to CALIBRATE at less than full scale.
The little scale you like can be calibrated (cal mode, press Mode or Tare to change cal weight) at 2 grams, 5 grams, 9 grams
, or the full scale of 20grams. Using a couple check weights you can find a range that compensates for linearity error where you plan on using it.For example, cal @ 5g, it's seems to be linear to within a count from 1g to 5g. Still drifts a count or so though. For $20 it's a bargain. Easily sensitive enough to SEE one kernel of Varget.
While I like the dual range A&D EJ54-D2 (22g and 54g) it does cost a lot more.
(not as much as some scales though)
You can also pick the cal value. I use 10 gram cal on the 22 gram range.
Another cheapy, not for powder charges, but useful for heavier bullets and brass is shown in the attached pic. 500 grams, 0.01 gram resolution, good to maybe 0.02 gram if you pick a good full scale value to calibrate at.
Check your scale to see if you can PICK the calibration value. Might be able to 'dial out' some error where you want to use it.
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For those that don’t have this scale that was Grams measure, Grains will show as GN.
Well that’s Cool, I learn something new every day.
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