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Ending the question of how many record shots were fired

A good friend and great shooter and I were discussing how groups are getting smaller each year and the use of judges to determine if there is 4 or 5 shots on a target (600 yard Ibs). He said.... how about placing our IBS target on top of a shotmarker frame and using it exclusively to count the number of shots ONLY! You would still have a group to measure ON PAPER ..... and there would be NO question to .... did one bullet perfectly fly though another punched hole. A lot of ranges are using electronic targets for f class why not use what’s already there to confirm number of shots on a given target? ...... a wise man indeed!!
 
Aren't there a number of instances where an etarget doesn't record a shot? My understanding is that happens mainly in 'rapid' fire - but sometimes in slow fire if two shots are impacting targets at the same time.

=> There could still be the question: Did the etarget drop the shot.

In some smallbore, don't they have a rolling piece of paper behind the target?
 
Aren't there a number of instances where an etarget doesn't record a shot? My understanding is that happens mainly in 'rapid' fire - but sometimes in slow fire if two shots are impacting targets at the same time.

=> There could still be the question: Did the etarget drop the shot.

In some smallbore, don't they have a rolling piece of paper behind the target?
Had mine two years and thousands of shot with zero failed reports
 
I was optimistic before I bought mine! And there is up keep on the target frame as far as warpage over time. But all good things need love now and again.
 
I thought that slow moving rolls of paper behind the target were used for this at one time.
 
I thought that slow moving rolls of paper behind the target were used for this at one time.
Moving backers used on short range bench rest. Not sure many LR match directors would go for this extra expense in LR bench rest. Even though groups are getting smaller in long range there are still very, very few times when they would come into play making the call on four or five shots.
 
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im all for something to verify the number of shots fired. I have been a victim of this and its not cool. that was just at a local match though, but what if its a national level match and the dq would cost the shooter valuable SOY points and maybe cost them the title.using the shotmarker, while not perfect, would definitely increase the odds of accuracy in the event of an issue. just my .02 and y'all have a great day
 
im all for something to verify the number of shots fired. I have been a victim of this and its not cool. that was just at a local match though, but what if its a national level match and the dq would cost the shooter valuable SOY points and maybe cost them the title.using the shotmarker, while not perfect, would definitely increase the odds of accuracy in the event of an issue. just my .02 and y'all have a great day
Yeah. It would increase the odds of having data to decide the number of shots. But, I think, it wouldn't be zero chance of having an issue.
 
I've never shot BR...is this because of cheating or something else?
There are sometimes question when only less than 5 holes can be identified. Equipment and shooters have improved over the years and now it is not uncommon to only be able with the human eye to distinguish 4 or so shots. This leeds ti debate and ill feelings with everyone trying their best ti di there job.
E-targets may not be perfect but what is. They would be a great tool to add. Set up properly a missed shot is extremely rare. I have used them for many years.
 
While expensive and subject to damage from an errant shot, the moving backers are my pick (at least for short range BR groups) where the stakes are high or consequential. If the rangemaster is going to tell the shooter that he only has 3 bullets through that hole according to the backer. It would be more difficult for the shooter to debate the issue with him if he had a piece of paper showing 3 holes in it and 5 on an undisputed target. JMHO. WD
 
like others have said equipment and consistency is getting better which equals tighter groups. We have to think ahead to resolve this problem. It happens quite often at our club , twice at the last IBS match.
 
I wonder what the odds are of having a dropped shot on a target at exactly the same time you shoot one thru the same hole? Surely it would be a helpful tool. In the end common sense is required to deliver judgment.
Wheres our stats guys? Id say its less than 1% that how many shots are fired and how many are dropped then those be in the 1-2groups per year you cant tell how many bullet holes are there.
 
We will finish up our tenth year of club matches at the local range this weekend. Due to our range being 80 yards short of 600 we shoot 600 Yard IBS targets at 520 Yards.
For the last five years I have been co-MD and, as such, have measured somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,400-1,500 targets each year. In all that time I have not had a single target that the "is it four of is it five" could not be answered.
We compile a Top Twenty all-time record list. Several groups under 1" and many just over 1" have been fired. The club record is .602" and it was easy to count the five shots. Our Club record score is 200. Again, easy to determine.
I was recently asked to referee an official IBS 600 yard match and determine the four-five question. I took several minutes to study the target using all the tools available and, unfortunately, I could not determine the fifth shot.
Yes, we are getting better at ultimate accuracy. Bullets and equipment just keep improving. There may/will be times when a group of referees eyes are incorrect but I will say I believe EVERY one of those will make an honest and educated decision (not a guess).
If your club shoots F-Class then likely there is access to E-Target equipment. As said already it is expensive, imperfect and, IMO, still unnecessary. Even in the COVID year there were thousands of targets fired in IBS Long Range matches and that would put the percentage of what this topic is about likely at way below 1%. But, as my friend Jerry points out, we do need to get ahead of the future as much as possible.
 

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