Electronic Targets: The Cons

[Mr. Ten-X]

A close friend fired a state long-range championship this weekend. He was behind the leader by a point or two at the end of the first day, but still within easy striking distance given the switching winds on the second day. Sadly, he had 6 or 7 unrecorded shots that second day that took him well out of any sort of rhythm and the frustration eventually forced him to fold his cards for a DNF.

Have not competed for a while and I have won that event a time or two. Had it been me under similar circumstances, I'd likely not have waited around much beyond the 3rd or 4th big red X before I'd have found something one heck of a lot more fun to do.

 

[jkl]

I would say that is only part of the information. I own a Silver Mountain and there are several here in Phoenix. At the State LR Championship level I would hope everything in the system had been proofed and tested but the Red X rarely comes without a reason. I am sure Dan with SMT may be the one to discuss this.

I would not give mine up for practice and testing but I have not shot a match on the system but I know it will happen.

John

 

[Mudeat]

The red X just means that the WiFi link disconnected. I've experienced this and there were no shots or scores lost, just a momentary pause while the link recovers. Some have blamed this on RF coverage, but my experience has been that I could directly see the antenna no more the 100ft away with no obstructions. This could be that the protocol stack in either the target system or the user device (Linovo pad) has software defects. There is a tendency to use open source, free ware, software which is of dubious quality for these things.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Not sure what part might be missing. It's actually quite complete. The system missed multiple shots during a match and he felt compelled to cut his losses.

Maybe what's missing is that he's a former Nat'l Long-Range Champion and knows his way around shooting?

 

[243Mendoza]

My experience with the red x problem is wifi connectivity: people who use their cellphones have more problems than people with tablets who have more problem than people with laptops. And some tablets are better than others. The repeaters near the firing line need to be located where their signals are not blocked by people walking by them or other obstruction

 

[JFM33]

Yup when they work there great .When they miss a shot,lose wi-fi or just jam up because earlier programs don't work with the newer programs it sucks. Kinda like haveing a new shooter at his first match ,a state championship pulling targets for you.

 

[swadiver]

I have used the Silver Mountain system extensively at our club's 600 yd range. when they work properly, they are wonderful to use. unfortunately, ghost shots, dropped shots, shots not congruent with the actual target, and wi fi issues undermine the shooter's confidence in the system in a match scenario. I know for a fact that problems with the system have cost me points when i was in a good rhythm with a condition and was interrupted by issues with the system.

electronic target systems are here to stay, imho. they are very convenient, and if you are a "speed" shooter attempting to stay in your shooting condition, they are a windfall. however, the intermittent, but unfortunately too frequent problems require a solution in match situations.

i believe that target faces should be changed for each shooter and personal should be in the pits to check/verify the actual target to resolve these issues. this of course, will slow the match progress down, and many don't like pit duty, but until the electronic systems demonstrate increased reliability, may be necessary for match shooters to fully accept these systems.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I shot on an SMT for the first time a couple of weeks ago. The only thing I found disconcerting was the ghost shot routine. It would plot two hits for one shot. We corrected for it by deleting the lower score hit (per the rules). It happened twice in 60 shots (for me).

Since we had a fresh face on the target, a quick check showed that there were no holes anywhere near the points shown for the "ghost" shots.

 

[ShootDots]

I have never shot on them during a match. I have, however, shot on them only twice during our practices. The entire experience was fraught with so many problems that unless it becomes necessary, I really do not want to shoot on them anymore. The BIG RED X was definitely an on-going problem. The computer screens were hard to see in the bright daylight. Not to mention the "scoring spotter" was nearly as large as the 10 ring itself. I could NOT tell exactly where I hit, ergo most shots were just guessing where to hold. Then the screens on the computer would simply go off. I was never so frustrated in my shooting life. I do think that these things are correctable and all these "cons" need to be corrected prior to any real match. For just practice, I guess that are okay, if the things work most of the time.

 

[500Stroker]

A close friend fired a state long-range championship this weekend. He was behind the leader by a point or two at the end of the first day, but still within easy striking distance given the switching winds on the second day. Sadly, he had 6 or 7 unrecorded shots that second day that took him well out of any sort of rhythm and the frustration eventually forced him to fold his cards for a DNF.

Have not competed for a while and I have won that event a time or two. Had it been me under similar circumstances, I'd likely not have waited around much beyond the 3rd or 4th big red X before I'd have found something one heck of a lot more fun to do.

We shoot SMT at our club, I know that there have been a couple of weird instances with the system but I dont believe it has cost anyone points. Personally I have shot four matches and have had zero problems I hope more clubs put them in.

 

[jkl]

Ben,
When you are shooting on a tablet you can enlarge the target so only the X ring show by spreading your fingers like you do on you phone. Then back out as necessary. Most leave it showing all of the rings until you are ready to go for record and then expand the target size to what you want to see.
John

 

[243Mendoza]

[QUOTE="ShootDots, post: 37008935, member: 792819"...The BIG RED X was definitely an on-going problem. The computer screens were hard to see in the bright daylight. Not to mention the "scoring spotter" was nearly as large as the 10 ring itself. I could NOT tell exactly where I hit, ergo most shots were just guessing where to hold. Then the screens on the computer would simply go off. I was never so frustrated in my shooting life. I do think that these things are correctable and all these "cons" need to be corrected prior to any real match. For just practice, I guess that are okay, if the things work most of the time.[/QUOTE]
As mentioned before, the big red x is wireless problem: either the repeater was not on or obstructed or the tablet has an insufficient antenna. Also mentioned elsewhere, the 'big spotter' obstructing the precise hit location can be made 'smaller' by magnifying the screen target. There needs to a shade for the screen of the display device when used in the open; I use a cardboard box; there should be a market for displays used for the electronic targets. I agree that all these problems should have been solved before a match or practice.

 

[243Mendoza]

I shot on an SMT for the first time a couple of weeks ago. The only thing I found disconcerting was the ghost shot routine. It would plot two hits for one shot. We corrected for it by deleting the lower score hit (per the rules). It happened twice in 60 shots (for me).

Since we had a fresh face on the target, a quick check showed that there were no holes anywhere near the points shown for the "ghost" shots.

I am guessing this happened at the Cascade range? Some people are theorizing that the shock is reflecting off the pit roof and hitting the target. This only happens with the larger faster bullets; it does not happen with 223 or slower moving 6mm bullets.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

I shot on an SMT for the first time a couple of weeks ago. The only thing I found disconcerting was the ghost shot routine. It would plot two hits for one shot. We corrected for it by deleting the lower score hit (per the rules). It happened twice in 60 shots (for me).

Since we had a fresh face on the target, a quick check showed that there were no holes anywhere near the points shown for the "ghost" shots.

The ghost shots are actually pretty easy to determine - I've had them happen in practice both with higher and lower reported scores (usually lower though). If you look at the MV, it'll be some ridiculously off number, like 1000fps or more, when the rest of your shots are fairly consistent. That'll be the ghost shot.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

The ghost shots are actually pretty easy to determine - I've had them happen in practice both with higher and lower reported scores (usually lower though). If you look at the MV, it'll be some ridiculously off number, like 1000fps or more, when the rest of your shots are fairly consistent. That'll be the ghost shot.

In this case, both ghosts showed about 300 fps higher impact velocity than the other shots in the string.

Good advice.

 

[SWRichmond]

What a giant (and expensive) mess.

Putting a computer chip in everything does not make it better.

"This could be that the protocol stack in either the target system or the user device (Linovo pad) has software defects."

What a horrible attempt at technical baffle-em-with-bullsh*t. Dollars to doughnuts you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Mudeat]

What a giant (and expensive) mess.

Putting a computer chip in everything does not make it better.

"This could be that the protocol stack in either the target system or the user device (Linovo pad) has software defects."

What a horrible attempt at technical baffle-em-with-bullsh*t. Dollars to doughnuts you have no idea what you are talking about.

You might try rereading that for clarity. Many folks have attributed the "red X" to some kind of RF propagation problem, like people standing in the way of the radio link. My pad works flawlessly at home where there are many obstructions, upstairs, down stairs, out on the deck, etc. On the SMTs, not so mutch. One should consider that there is a likelihood of just plain software defects in the protocol stacks (if you know what that us) in this regard. Baffled?

 

[500Stroker]

What a giant (and expensive) mess.

Putting a computer chip in everything does not make it better.

"This could be that the protocol stack in either the target system or the user device (Linovo pad) has software defects."

What a horrible attempt at technical baffle-em-with-bullsh*t. Dollars to doughnuts you have no idea what you are talking about.

Pretty stiff words.
I'll bet that you are old enough to remember when cell phones first came out and all the troubles that surrounded them. Do you have one now?

 

[243Mendoza]

... One should consider that there is a likelihood of just plain software defects in the protocol stacks (if you know what that us) in this regard. Baffled?

Mudcat,

Could you explain what are "protocol stacks"? Is it related how software handles wifi connectivity/communications?

 

[Ned Ludd]

Well, the good news is that there was really nothing ever wrong with the manual targets e-targets were intended to replace.