Shoot, on a windy day, a 10 shot string on a fresh face and compare the paper to the monitor. Let us know what you find. Do this a few times. Some days it will be spot on. Other days you might be a bit surprised. Do it in a pretty good rain shower on multiple targets and see what occurs. I love the convenience of e targets as well as the equalization of pit service....no doubt. I would like to see them used at nationals but only after more development.
Electronic Targets Help
- Thread starter SWRichmond
- Start date
TylerFromMS
Gold $$ Contributor
Do the same thing on the last match of the day on a very hot or very cold day. Accuracy will decrease due to the human condition.
Bonus points: have someone pull a target wired with a shotmarker and compare. I haven’t done this so it might be an interesting experiment.
Bonus points: have someone pull a target wired with a shotmarker and compare. I haven’t done this so it might be an interesting experiment.
Etargets are great, have shot on shot markers and silver mountain both. I own a silver mountain g2, love it, only down side is that it does not have a seven second delay between shots built in, you need their server and have to go thru steps to activate the delay which is kinda inconvenient. however they do have pair firing built in which is priceless in my opinion. Shot marker has a seven second delay built in but no pair firing.
Medic505
Gold $$ Contributor
Is this a fact or an assumption? If you are calling this a fact, how did you quantify your results?
Well our club is located a few miles North of Seattle so wind and rain are common factor.
I am not dismissing your comments however I can only comment on the results that we have seen at our club.
pm sent
TylerFromMS
Gold $$ Contributor
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This is just me playing on my phone at work.
As people tire, they make more mistakes. It’s a fact. It’s biology.
Medic505
Gold $$ Contributor
You have zero actual data on accuracy of targets marked at the end of a match. What you made is an assumption.
TylerFromMS
Gold $$ Contributor
No, it’s more of an inferential thing. If people make more mistakes when they are tired doing (X), it can be inferred that they will make more mistakes when tired doing (Y).
Car crashes happen more when people are tired. Mistakes in medicine happen more when people are tired. There is no double-blind study on pulling targets, as they are rarely, if ever, examined afterwards. So, no, it’s not so much an assumption as a generalization of humans’ limitations.
Even if this is the argument you have decided to attack, there is no way that 20 people will score a line cut the exact same way. Baseball umpires do not call the same strike zones. It’s just a judgement call.
You seem to be hostile toward me and I’m not sure why.
Edit: I forgot about the obvious. The DOT limits how long truck drivers can drive. The FAA(I think) limits pilots and air traffic controllers for this same reason. Tired people make bad choices.
Car crashes happen more when people are tired. Mistakes in medicine happen more when people are tired. There is no double-blind study on pulling targets, as they are rarely, if ever, examined afterwards. So, no, it’s not so much an assumption as a generalization of humans’ limitations.
Even if this is the argument you have decided to attack, there is no way that 20 people will score a line cut the exact same way. Baseball umpires do not call the same strike zones. It’s just a judgement call.
You seem to be hostile toward me and I’m not sure why.
Edit: I forgot about the obvious. The DOT limits how long truck drivers can drive. The FAA(I think) limits pilots and air traffic controllers for this same reason. Tired people make bad choices.
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TylerFromMS
Gold $$ Contributor
What is your point?
Mine is that people are fallible. Electronics are, as well. But an electronic will judge everything the same if set up properly. And electronics don’t get tired, thus negating errors in judgement that are present with people. They also don’t know if it’s me or you shooting...
Medic505
Gold $$ Contributor
My point is this. Without actual data, what you have made is an assumption. It is well know that wind blowing on the face of an E target will affect its accuracy. That is a fact. If you have a string of 10 E targets, wind will make the accuracy vary from target 1 to target 10. This is why I made my original statement, E targets are not as accurate as the rifles being shot on them. And I stand by that.
TylerFromMS
Gold $$ Contributor
@Medic505 I’ll concede that if the frames are not built properly, there will be variances. This is without requesting any data from you, as I made that point in my first post.
However, the margin of human error is still there, whether you care to admit it or not. Edit: This includes human judgement.
@jkl that’s a little hyperbolic for me. I go back and look at some of the old OLD threads and they were saying the same things about widely accepted practices we do today (no-turn, neck sizing...).
@Jdne5b THIS is a valid point. I don’t have a rebuttal for this. How often are challenges made at matches would be my question. How often have the challenges changed the results?
However, the margin of human error is still there, whether you care to admit it or not. Edit: This includes human judgement.
@jkl that’s a little hyperbolic for me. I go back and look at some of the old OLD threads and they were saying the same things about widely accepted practices we do today (no-turn, neck sizing...).
@Jdne5b THIS is a valid point. I don’t have a rebuttal for this. How often are challenges made at matches would be my question. How often have the challenges changed the results?
ryanjay11
Gold $$ Contributor
This is 100% true. There are pluses and minuses to both E-Targets and manual pulling. The camaraderie that I've had in the pits with other shooters is priceless and if you have a good impact berm, I'm convinced that you can actually get the target down, scored and back up quicker than the 7 second delay on the e-targets.
I was debating on even posting this, but I'm going to do it anyways. I recently had 4-5 questionable scores in the same 20 shot string by the person pulling my target. It's my own fault, because I really should have challenged after the first questionable mark. I've always hesitated to challenge a score, because I felt it was rude. This instance was odd enough, that the guy scoring(not pulling) on the next target over mentioned it to me afterwards. I've been shooting F-Class for 10 years and never had this happen, and suspect it will never happen again.
Jdne5b
Gold $$ Contributor
Even with perfect frames, you will see variance due to wind. The wind blows the sound waves, resulting in inaccurate shot display by the ET. That is Medics point.
I believe the shooters lost all of the challenges we had at Sierra Cup this weekend, but I have seen challenges won even at Nationals. I guess to me winning a challenge changes the results because it impacts your score, whether it changes your placing or not.
These are all considerations we need to remember as this technology evolves and ranges adopt it. Everyone has their points and most are valid. Personally I don't feel that ETs are ready for big matches such as Nationals but have no issues shooting on them for practice, locals, and possibly even state matches.
Maybe we'll see how the V2 finale goes on Shotmarkers, hopefully it's a hit.
I believe the shooters lost all of the challenges we had at Sierra Cup this weekend, but I have seen challenges won even at Nationals. I guess to me winning a challenge changes the results because it impacts your score, whether it changes your placing or not.
These are all considerations we need to remember as this technology evolves and ranges adopt it. Everyone has their points and most are valid. Personally I don't feel that ETs are ready for big matches such as Nationals but have no issues shooting on them for practice, locals, and possibly even state matches.
Maybe we'll see how the V2 finale goes on Shotmarkers, hopefully it's a hit.
The Shotmarkers did not drop any shots that I was aware of at the LRA V2 qualifier/Finale practice match. They were flawless....as far as the shooters know. What we don't know won't bother us I suppose
. I would love to have a 15 target line with fresh faces fire a 20 shot match and stop the match and compare each target face to the e-record on a breezy day. I've done similar repeatedly on a single target with smaller numbers of shots and sometimes my score would be better, sometimes worse so one could argue that the law of averages takes care of that issue.
Medic505
Gold $$ Contributor
You must shoot on a range where the wind doesn't blow or what Robin and I have been trying to explain to you has zoomed right over your head. It's not all about the frames. You could hang an E target on a bomb proof mount and when the wind blows on it, you will see variances. End of story. I give up.
why do you keep trying to provide facts on the interweb. Lol. I thought you were smarter than that. Hahaha.
People just want to say your a bitcher when providing facts about them but yet you say you like to shoot on them.
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