Electric Cars -- anyone own one?

[jackieschmidt]

Look around you. Anyone you know or see that owns a plug-in EV (BEV) already has one or more likely two (or more) other passenger vehicles (not counting bikes or ATVs). Anyone buying an EV has plenty of disposable income, and will never be forced to rely on the EV when the chips are down. They make great suburban commuters, grocery getters or Home Depot haulers while being a blast to stoplight drag race. But no one will stake their mobility on one. Show me a household with nothing but battery-powered vehicles.

As for repairs and reliability, did you know you can lease an EV? I know a gal in CA who just leased a Mini Cooper EV for about $300 per month. Her employer provides free chargers. With gas over $5 there, she's saving $200 on her monthly commute and her net cost to own and operate the EV is about $100 per month. Any future repairs are someone else's problem. And, there's no way she's selling her old ICE Mustang!
-

You just described me in the first paragraph.

 

[Brians356]

You just described me in the first paragraph.

I'd like to lay claim to special insight, but it's obvious who's buying them. So the massive government subsidies benefit those who least need subsidies.

As to where, California has the most at a half million EVs, but, more telling, the most per capita at just over 1 EV per 100 residents.
-

 

[Turpentine]

Are those golf carts manufactured by a world class ISO multi national corporation ? Do they use Lith-Ion batteries or lead acid ? Are they a relevant comparison to a Tesla ?

Doesn't matter. They will still go belly up and when they do it will cost big time to replace them. Meanwhile charging those fuel cells will over tax an already overused electrical grid. Keep drinking the Koolaid. I certainly am not buying it. There is absolutely no way an electric car could meet my needs.

 

[LuvDog]

Look around you. Anyone you know or see that owns a plug-in EV (BEV) already has one or more likely two (or more) other passenger vehicles (not counting bikes or ATVs). Anyone buying an EV has plenty of disposable income, and will never be forced to rely on the EV when the chips are down. They make great suburban commuters, grocery getters or Home Depot haulers while being a blast to stoplight drag race. But no one will stake their mobility on one. Show me a household with nothing but battery-powered vehicles.

A house a couple of streets over has all EVs, I see 4 Teslas and 3 BMWs in their driveway every day. But that also means they have multiple vehicles for everyone in their house, so no worries about not having something to drive. I think they may have 2 adult kids at most. But this is also a house that's well over a million dollars, so I don't think they need something for long trips. I'm sure they fly everywhere and probably made sure their vacation homes are within battery distance.

 

[FNSafari]

If you can get 200-275 miles on an 80 or 90% charge you can go about anywhere you want.....if you don't mind a 1 to 2 hour layover every 4 hours for charging the battery, assuming your route takes you near charger stations, which it has to in the end. EV's, not the long term solution.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Got a kid 250 miles away. No way would I drive an EV thru the mountain to her house with NO charging stations in sight.
My Camry can and does start out with a full tank, go to her house and back (@ 30 MPG), get home with 1/2 a tank left, turn around and do it again before I need to fill up again. If an EV fits YOUR needs,
Did notice the other day a string of "newer" charging stations, roped off and shut down. Wonder what's up with that?

 

[tominboise]

Got a kid 250 miles away. No way would I drive an EV thru the mountain to her house with NO charging stations in sight.
My Camry can and does start out with a full tank, go to her house and back (@ 30 MPG), get home with 1/2 a tank left, turn around and do it again before I need to fill up again. If an EV fits YOUR needs,
Did notice the other day a string of "newer" charging stations, roped off and shut down. Wonder what's up with that?

Your Camry has a 30 gallon gas tank?

 

[wedgy]

I don't think they will ever build any type of manufacturing or mining facility in CA no matter how badly they may need it.

As Companies Eye Massive Lithium Deposits in California’s Salton Sea, Locals Anticipate a Mixed Bag - Inside Climate News

Frontline communities in Lithium Valley are cautiously optimistic about the economic potential, but are also concerned about the health and environmental issues mining could create.

insideclimatenews.org

 

[dellet]

EV’s are not for everyone, they require a different approach to problem solving. Things like keeping the battery warm during winter isn’t something most combustion car drivers worry about.

COPENHAGEN, Denmark — A toaster placed under an electric vehicle by its owner to warm up its battery likely caused a fire that destroyed the car and damaged a nearby house in southern Denmark, police said Monday.

Police said that they “strongly discourage” people to use that method to heat power cells.
“The cause of the fire is most likely to be found in the toaster that the owner of the car had placed under the front of his car to keep the battery warm,” police said in a daily report.

The fire happened on Saturday in Stenlille, about 60 kilometers (nearly 40 miles) southwest of Copenhagen. No one was injured.

The car was parked in a carport — a shelter for vehicles that is attached to a house and consists of a flat roof supported on pillars. The make of the car wasn't known, and it also wasn't immediately clear if it was the vehicle owner's house that was damaged or a neighbor's home.

The car's owner faces a fine.

A toaster placed under a car to heat up the battery likely sparked a fire in Denmark, police say

Police in southern Denmark say that a toaster placed under an electric vehicle by its owner to warm up its battery likely caused a fire that destroyed the car and damaged a nearby house.

apnews.com

Working the gas pumps as a kid, one of the responsibilities was to keep an eye on the self serve islands. I’ve stopped things like people running the water hose to the big round cap on the engine of a VW Bug, wanted to fill it up, any one can see the level is low. Trying to poor engine oil down the dipstick tube cuz that’s how you fill the transmission. Anti-freeze in the washer fluid or the opposite.

Wonder what kind of stories charging station attendants like tell after a couple years on the job?

 

[Dgd6mm]

First they have to build the charging stations.

 

[ern.santos]

A toaster placed under a car to heat up the battery likely sparked a fire in Denmark, police say

Police in southern Denmark say that a toaster placed under an electric vehicle by its owner to warm up its battery likely caused a fire that destroyed the car and damaged a nearby house.

apnews.com

I'm having a hard time believing there was enough thermal transference from a mere toaster to the battery pack that would cause a thermal runaway event. Battery separators have to be at around 70C or above before an internal short could happen. The article didn't state if there was a fire that was started from something external to the battery pack like a plastic covering. One risk of EVs in cold weather is lithium plating, especially if the driver has a lead foot. Once the dendrites pierce the separator of the cells, game over.

 

[dellet]

I'm having a hard time believing there was enough thermal transference from a mere toaster to the battery pack that would cause a thermal runaway event. Battery separators have to be at around 70C or above before an internal short could happen. The article didn't state if there was a fire that was started from something external to the battery pack like a plastic covering. One risk of EVs in cold weather is lithium plating, especially if the driver has a lead foot. Once the dendrites pierce the separator of the cells, game over.

I think there might be bit of a translation problem. Here a first thought is a pop up toaster that cycles. I’m guessing it was more like a hot plate with a continuous cycle and it over heated catching the car on fire. Not the other way around. The police even hinted at that.

Close to 50 years in the business, there are not many customer workarounds that surprise me. Utoob has certainly added to the entertainment.

Can’t wait for what the EV crowd brings to the table

 

[fn1889m]

Is this statement the result of an extensive research project?
Assuming what is fine for anyone much less "most people" is ridiculous.

Yes, I think most people can get by well with a good electric car. If my statement is false, then the opposite would be true - that electric cars don’t work for most people. What I don’t get is why people think electric cars are essentially non-functional, without any research, and based upon an accurate information. I think the consensus is that the electric vehicles make pretty good daily drivers, but are not yet ready for long-distance cross country driving.

I spent almost 2 years researching electric cars before I bought one. People who make trips of under 100 miles one way/200 miles round-trip, can get by pretty well with an electric car. I wouldn’t want to drive across North Dakota in the winter. But I can drive 100 miles to SeaTac airport, pick up a friend, drive home, and be recharged in the morning to do it again. I am spending about $.80 per gallon (of gas) for equivalent power for transportation. But then, electricity is cheaper in the PNW.

So buy the vehicle that works best for you. I got no problem with that.

 

[fn1889m]

How many other passenger vehicles (cars, pickups, SUVs) do you own?
-

I am on my 3rd Ford Ranger 4x4. Decided to sell it. I will miss the dump runs. But I can pay a little extra for city pickup and those lumber deliveries. I am retired, not in the trades, and the Toyota is an AWD SUV. With all season tires it will do OK. I’ll miss the truck, though.

 

[Brians356]

I am on my 3rd Ford Ranger 4x4. Decided to sell it. I will miss the dump runs. But I can pay a little extra for city pickup and those lumber deliveries. I am retired, not in the trades, and the Toyota is an AWD SUV. With all season tires it will do OK. I’ll miss the truck, though.

If the answer to "How many vehicles?" is in there, I'm too diminished to see it. Is the EV your one and only vehicle?
-

 

[NorCalMikie]

Your Camry has a 30 gallon gas tank?

Should have said, 250 miles "over and back" twice with gas to spare.

 

[NorCalMikie]

So buy the vehicle that works best for you. I got no problem with that.

 

[Court178]

I've been following this thread for awhile now and decided to throw in my .02C worth.

My son has had a Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid (PHEV) for 2 years now. His employer and his wives have free charging stations at their work. He also owns a SUV that they use for vacations. More space for luggage.

I have another son who also owns a Chevy Volt PHEV. He has had it for 6 years now and can charge it for essentially free (more on this later) at my house since him and his wife still live with me.

I own a 6 year old Honda Clarity PHEV that I love. 2X/day on weekdays my wife makes a commute of 40 miles (80 miles / day). During the summer she can make this 40 mile commute on battery. Winter she is about 3-5 miles short of making the whole trip. Then we recharge at home in about 1 1/2 hours. I used this car last year for 3 1500 mile trips and averaged around 45mpg only having a full charge as I left home.

This is where it gets interesting. Our utility company has a time of use plan for those who own electric cars. PHEV's qualify. So my electric rate has gone from .11/kw to .05/kw. This allows me to charge my car for about .50C The .05/kw applies to all times except 3-8pm on weekdays where it jumps to .25C. I also have solar with battery backup that I use during the 3-8pm time frame to eliminate the .25C rates. My solar is enough on most days to charge my car at least once, 2X on sunny days and still run most of my house. So basically my wife can drive 80 miles / day and it costs me .50C or less.

I know there are those who will say that I'm not adding in my solar installation costs. They are correct.
I already had solar that I installed myself but there were still costs. I'm just saying that even without solar or the discount from the utility company it would only cost me $1.10 / charge to drive the equivalent of a gallon of gas.

After having this experience with PHEV vehicles I still wouldn't buy a fully electric car (range anxiety). But I will replace my PHEV with another when the time comes. Other benefits are brakes last a lot longer and less oil changes.

 

[FNSafari]

Exactly! What I get torqued about is the push by the current regime in Washington to shut down carbon based transportation, as if they think we will get all our electricity from wind and solar. These nut cases need to go and the best way to make that happen is at the polls in 2024!

 

[Dgd6mm]

7.5 billion dollars set aside for charging stations over two years ago and not the first one built from our taxpayer dollars.