Electric Cars -- anyone own one?

[Knotwild]

I'm of similar Height and Weight. Both the Tesla Model S and Tesla Model X are plenty big for me. I've yet to drive or ride in a BMW or Mercedes EV.

Good for you, not for me. I don't even ride in midget cars - ever. No need for EVs. Truth in science is showing man has little to no evidence that man has raised carbon levels. The carbon cycle makes God's design work. Part of the cycle is sequstering carbon naturally. If you achieve Net 0 carbon from man, what happens to plant growth?

It's probably best if all these Net 0 people concern themselves with adequate water and food supplies to handle world growth.

I don't support faulty science or government intrusion into our lives based on lies.

 

[Mudeat]

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/ev-electric-vehicle-slowdown-ford-gm-tesla-b20a748e?st=kmk0ksmovq4knmx&reflink=article_copyURL_share

“People are finally seeing reality,” said Toyota Motor Chairman Akio Toyoda. For years, Toyota and other EV-cautious carmakers had been touting hybrids as a consumer-friendly way to reduce carbon emissions.

 

[Brians356]

“People are finally seeing reality,” said Toyota Motor Chairman Akio Toyoda. For years, Toyota and other EV-cautious carmakers had been touting hybrids as a consumer-friendly way to reduce carbon emissions.

Hybrids are better, but they're too heavy for their carrying capacity and size. Batteries need to lose weight.
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[wildcatter]

A lot of remarks from many who try and shield their knowledge by not educating themseles. I also see many that don't want facts to support there lack of understanding how EV's have evolved rapidly in the past few years!

Many think our American auto suppliers, the same folks that support and also supply some of the top bluecolar jobs in this country, we're not planning for this on thier own!

Some just want to promote this Country into failure, just because they don't like it, again mostly because they want to deprive themselves of understanding it!

As far as no power, no range, for a homeowner and sportsman,,, well less than 50k buys over 240mi per charge, 0 to 60 performance in 4.1 seconds, with a 7700 lb tow capacity, in a half ton 4 door 4x4 powered by 2 motors. He'll that covers everything my Chevy Z71 does, with half as much torque, and one fill up a week. The electric with twice the torque, would need filled up mid week.

Oh, and if your to big to get in that comfortably, your screwed, and you can't by a Z71 with Those options for that money with a 5.3 gas motor. Let alone, if the gas engine quits you walk, if an engine the Lightning quits, the other one gets you to a repaired shop on its own!

Go fast, rubber burning, wheel sanders, will be left sitting showing their old school performance as the fastest muscle today gets blown away by the EV muscle now available. All offering more power, more comfort, more options than gas vehicles. Hell ask Tony Stewart after his 1400 hp EV Mustand test run!

Personally, I wouldn't own a new anything! I hate technology, I think it should against the law taking your hands off the wheel, yet we are now promoting it, with vehicles that teach us we don't have to think for ourselves! They build them to stop for you, steer for you, see hazards you don't, etc.

Just like we teach our kids at school these days, don't try and think for themselves, just push a button and let it think for you,,,,,, sad sad days in my opinion. It's no wonder I see so many here making clueless comments about both, gas and EV's.

One thing is for sure, the more and better we can build them, the better off we will be as a Nation competing in a world that has already made it clear what the market is demanding, and the majority have made it clear, they want EV's!

Charging stations, chargers, batteries, motors, technicians, tooling, factories for each of those things, are our future economy, and the money made on all, will continue to be the hundreds of trillions of dollars that trickle down support so many other jobs that these workers will spend those trillions on will bennefit from!

Ya, not just common sense, but simple math, once you open up the tunnel vision, and look at the entire industries it will be opening up. I guess unimportant to some that have already secured their futures. But those with decades till there's are secure, might be something to think about, other than yourself, we thrive as a nation, individually we will fail severely.

 

[Eagle Six]

After reading that I feel fortunate that my tunnel vision has been educated!!

 

[rr2030]

All the technology is moving us toward autonomous transportation. The results of the research are in, and backed by my observation, they concluded that a disproportionate number of people are becoming too stupid to drive.

Autonomous : Open the pod bay door HAL ....

 

[Brians356]

A lot of remarks from many who try and shield their knowledge by not educating themseles. He'll that covers everything my Chevy Z71 does

Really? "Physician, heal thyself."

less than 50k buys over 240mi per charge, 0 to 60 performance in 4.1 seconds, with a 7700 lb tow capacity, in a half ton 4 door 4x4 powered by 2 motors.

Hold on there, pard. What's the range of that EV while towing 7700 lbs? Uphill in to the mountain campsite? In winter when it's 15 deg. F? If you don't know, you need to self-educate a bit more.
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[wildcatter]

Really? "Physician, heal thyself."

Hold on there, pard. What's the range of that EV while towing 7700 lbs? Uphill in to the mountain campsite? In winter when it's 15 def F? If you don't know, you need to self-educate a bit more.
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Anyone that was interested in one would do the research, then they would realize if they needed the 240 miles offered by the standard battery in the most demanding conditions for their weekend camping and fishing trip,,, simply order it with the big batteries, simple, probably exceed the standard batteries even in the coldest hardest climbing conditions! Which by the way boosts torque, with miles, and makes those same motors more efficient,,, depends on your needs!

Cowboy up "pard" do it right, if that's what you want,,,,

It's as basic as understanding maybe 1/2 ton is not enough with a 5.3 in a gas truck, might need the 6.2 in a 3/4?

Video: You'll Be Shocked How Far a 2024 Chevy Silverado EV Can Tow vs a Gas Ford F-150!

It's time to put the all-new 2024 Chevy Silverado EV pickup truck to a real-world towing range test. To do this, we got two identical 24-foot car-hauler trailer

tfltruck.com

Like I said, for my normal us, over my Z71, that test above shows it will do most of all I use my truck for,, a hell of a lot cheaper!

But like the gas truck, it won't do a lot of what the EV will do, as well! Up to 11,000 lbs doing it.

Don't think I don't understand some parts of the country won't offer the availability to charging my area does. It is also extremely obvious, that this is changing everywhere as we speak!

It's as simple to understand as the first gas vehicles, Not Fords! The cowboys made fun of them and said the same crap, no fuel, stranded without it, hay is everywhere, but we so how right they were to!

It happening as we speak, hell my campsight has 240v all I need is a charger. But like I said, I'm over trucked with l33 powered Z71, that will prolly last me till they take my license away,,,, by then, all these what is will have been answered, and it will be "Common Knowledge" to all.

Just like knowing what wieght truck and size engine to order today, and for a few that understand gas vehicles, what gear ratio to order for the purpose that setup is needed for! Which to me is,,,, Common Sense!

 

[wildcatter]

All the technology is moving us toward autonomous transportation. The results of the research are in, and backed by my observation, they concluded that a disproportionate number of people are becoming too stupid to drive.

Autonomous : Open the pod bay door HAL ....

It's the way they have been taught, don't think, just push the right button. Do that and you will get it right. We are becoming a Nation that can't think, electronics are for that. Probably why so many like this EV electronic everything, just push a button.

My kids are in their 40's, most of there friends don't even know enough to change oil, let alone how!

 

[Brians356]

Anyone that was interested in one would do the research, then they would realize if they needed the 240 miles offered by the standard battery in the most demanding conditions for their weekend camping and fishing trip,,, simply order it with the big batteries, simple,

That's rich. Like adding reserve saddle tanks and tripling the fuel capacity of a pickup, huh? Doesn't work that way. The models in the independent tow tests (like Motor Trend's) already have the "big battery". No one would order an EV to tow 7000 lbs without the biggest battery available, unless you're using it for moving yachts around a sales lot.

My point was you can't blithely cite a 240 lb range in the same sentence with 7700 lb tow. Not without inviting derision.
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[wildcatter]

That's rich. Like adding reserve saddle tanks and tripling the fuel capacity of a pickup, huh? Doesn't work that way. The models in the independent tow tests (like Motor Trend's) already have the "big battery". No one would order an EV to tow 7000 lbs without the biggest battery available, unless you're using it for moving yachts around a sales lot.

My point was you can't blithely cite a 240 lb range in the same sentence with 7700 lb tow. Not without inviting derision.
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Thank you for making my point, which is the 7700 lbd tow capacity with 240 miles. Is more than I need to do what my current truck is used for! If I was doing what you are implying, well the new Silverado would be my choice,,,, with the big motor,,,, er,,, battery

But like what was offered with the first gas vehicle, think how fast that changed, then realize how much faster this going to advance in every way for the new EV's today.

 

[Eagle Six]

The first gas vehicle was offered after the first battery powered vehicle, or close to it.

 

[Jim Ziegler]

7700 pounds of towing isn't diddly squat. I haul close to 20,000 pounds up into the Colorado mountains 3 times a week. That little half ton would blow up half way there.
For every day commuting back and forth to your job I can see that it might be useful, but not everyone just drives to the office and back...

 

[rr2030]

The first gas vehicle was offered after the first battery powered vehicle, or close to it.

Storage battery technology is 200 + years in development. Internal combustion technology is just over 100 in development. which technology has made strides, which technology has putted along?

A new gasoline driven vehicle emits 99% less emissions than a vehicle from the 60's. 1960 fuel average economy 12.4 mpg, 2024 average 28 mpg. We have the finish line in site. No one has convinced me we need to replace ICE.

 

[dellet]

A lot of remarks from many who try and shield their knowledge by not educating themseles. I also see many that don't want facts to support there lack of understanding how EV's have evolved rapidly in the past few years!

Many think our American auto suppliers, the same folks that support and also supply some of the top bluecolar jobs in this country, we're not planning for this on thier own!

Some just want to promote this Country into failure, just because they don't like it, again mostly because they want to deprive themselves of understanding it!

As far as no power, no range, for a homeowner and sportsman,,, well less than 50k buys over 240mi per charge, 0 to 60 performance in 4.1 seconds, with a 7700 lb tow capacity, in a half ton 4 door 4x4 powered by 2 motors. He'll that covers everything my Chevy Z71 does, with half as much torque, and one fill up a week. The electric with twice the torque, would need filled up mid week.

Oh, and if your to big to get in that comfortably, your screwed, and you can't by a Z71 with Those options for that money with a 5.3 gas motor. Let alone, if the gas engine quits you walk, if an engine the Lightning quits, the other one gets you to a repaired shop on its own!

Go fast, rubber burning, wheel sanders, will be left sitting showing their old school performance as the fastest muscle today gets blown away by the EV muscle now available. All offering more power, more comfort, more options than gas vehicles. Hell ask Tony Stewart after his 1400 hp EV Mustand test run!

Personally, I wouldn't own a new anything! I hate technology, I think it should against the law taking your hands off the wheel, yet we are now promoting it, with vehicles that teach us we don't have to think for ourselves! They build them to stop for you, steer for you, see hazards you don't, etc.

Just like we teach our kids at school these days, don't try and think for themselves, just push a button and let it think for you,,,,,, sad sad days in my opinion. It's no wonder I see so many here making clueless comments about both, gas and EV's.

One thing is for sure, the more and better we can build them, the better off we will be as a Nation competing in a world that has already made it clear what the market is demanding, and the majority have made it clear, they want EV's!

Charging stations, chargers, batteries, motors, technicians, tooling, factories for each of those things, are our future economy, and the money made on all, will continue to be the hundreds of trillions of dollars that trickle down support so many other jobs that these workers will spend those trillions on will bennefit from!

Ya, not just common sense, but simple math, once you open up the tunnel vision, and look at the entire industries it will be opening up. I guess unimportant to some that have already secured their futures. But those with decades till there's are secure, might be something to think about, other than yourself, we thrive as a nation, individually we will fail severely.

One of the biggest problems in the marketing of EV’s is over blown expectations.

You’re not helping.

You don’t actually identify what truck it is you’re talking about, so to impossible to “Do the research”. What is the exact truck that can do all the above for less than $50,000?

If you’re referring to the 24 Silverado EV, as the video you linked suggests. The cost is about $80,000 for the most stripped down model.

It does have a 7700 pound rating, but in the test you linked, the trailer only weighed 6500 pounds. So the truck with a range of 450 miles empty, towing less than 85% of its capacity, could only make it 65% of its range. Probably would have dropped to 45% at max load.

The Silverado EV seems to have potential, but you vastly over rated it’s abilty and savings. Based on the numbers provided in you link. The savings was probably less than $50 for the demonstration trip. Only have to do that a couple hundred times to start saving any money based on a $10,000 difference in sales price of the F150 gasser. At least the gasser has some comfort features due to a higher tie level.

As you say lots to consider. But the information to consider must be accurate.

 

[Brians356]

Thank you for making my point, which is the 7700 lbd tow capacity with 240 miles.

That's hogwash. Which particular EV tow vehicle are you saying has that capability?

The $94,000 Ford F-150 Lightning XLT Platinum Edition is the king of EV pickups, and when they first came out, sold like hotcakes to low-hanging fruit buyers. As tested below, it had a standard 7,700 lb tow rating and the Extended Range battery. EPA range claimed 300 miles.

Then Motor Trend did a towing test with it and wrote:

Before you hitch an Airstream to your electric truck and set out to circumnavigate the country, you need to understand this: With the largest available battery pack, a fully charged Ford F-150 Lightning electric truck has less energy onboard than a regular F-150 with four gallons of gas in its tank.

Consider how far a combustion-powered F-150 would tow at max capacity on four gallons of regular unleaded. Thirty five miles? Maybe 40 if you drive slowly?

Now that you understand where we're starting from, you won't be as surprised to learn that the towing range of the electric F-150 is dismal. In MotorTrend testing, an F-150 Lightning Platinum saddled with a camper that nearly maxed out its 8,500-pound towing capacity couldn't even cover 100 miles. Range improved when we hooked up a significantly lighter trailer, but not by as much as you might expect.

So 7,700 lbs, maybe 120 miles? A regular F-150 SuperCrew has a 26-gal tank, which (at only 10 mpg towing, as described above) would give you a 250 miles range. Even when it's ice cold outside! And the best part? It takes 5 minutes to fill up the tank at any gas station in the country.
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[rr2030]

It's as simple to understand as the first gas vehicles, Not Fords! The cowboys made fun of them and said the same crap, no fuel, stranded without it, hay is everywhere, but we so how right they were to!

I get your point, here is mine: Cowboys weren't squeezed into giving up their horses for ICE. Grass and hay were free, would anyone even look at an EV if gasoline was free or the price it was 10 years ago? Oh, and I see Cowboys are still using Horses in mass.

If you want an EV and it suits your need buy one, but don't coheres me into owing one. I would love to see the posts on a thread here if the government decided that only Creedmoor calibers were going to be legal by the year 2035.

When ICE is illegal, only criminals will own ICE

 

[wildcatter]

One of the biggest problems in the marketing of EV’s is over blown expectations.

You’re not helping.

You don’t actually identify what truck it is you’re talking about, so to impossible to “Do the research”. What is the exact truck that can do all the above for less than $50,000?

If you’re referring to the 24 Silverado EV, as the video you linked suggests. The cost is about $80,000 for the most stripped down model.

It does have a 7700 pound rating, but in the test you linked, the trailer only weighed 6500 pounds. So the truck with a range of 450 miles empty, towing less than 85% of its capacity, could only make it 65% of its range. Probably would have dropped to 45% at max load.

The Silverado EV seems to have potential, but you vastly over rated it’s abilty and savings. Based on the numbers provided in you link. The savings was probably less than $50 for the demonstration trip. Only have to do that a couple hundred times to start saving any money based on a $10,000 difference in sales price of the F150 gasser. At least the gasser has some comfort features due to a higher tie level.

As you say lots to consider. But the information to consider must be accurate.

Like I said, a lot of folks don't do their own research, thanks for pointing that out. Plus it was old 2023 lightning, I think I stated that. Look at the new Hummers. Look at anything new, it all keeps improving, and will the longer its being made.

Charging stations will get better and their charging algorithms will improve battery life, home charging will be the most efficient for sure. For most all they will need. But nothing will ever be best for everyone. Research, and not social media cowboys.

 

[COLT45SA]

You can currently find new and used electric vehicles for prices comparable to those of ice vehicles, especially if you take into account $7500 off the top for a qualifying vehicle. I don’t think you necessarily have to pay $20,000 more to get an equivalent EV. I would recommend you look at the 2024 VW FWD iD4 as a mid price point. If you shop around, and find an overstocked dealer, you should be able to buy one for about $30,000 after discounts and incentives. A local dealer has some 2023 models for discount. But price and demand vary by model, dealer and region.

Second, charging at home is essential for an EV, for both convenience and cost savings, in my opinion. Most vehicles will give you more than 200 miles round trip on a full charge. But savings depends on the cost of electricity vs the cost of gasoline. This varies a lot by region. But in any event, charging at home on 240V is a very nice convenience, as well as cheaper in my case.

These two articles are pretty good, summarizing the cost factors over the life of the vehicle.
Joule article
Edmunds article

I believe I paid roughly $43K before tax and license, etc., for the Toyota EV. I think it will be a good long term vehicle in my retirement. I think Toyotas are reliable, and they have been building the Prius for a long time so they know something. But if I were commuting 200 miles RT for work each day I would recommend a different vehicle - the VW iD4 FWD, which has faster charging times and a bit more battery capacity. I needed AWD; you may not. I can take my time charging - you maybe not. Every make/model has strengths and weaknesses.

I am tired of getting into arguments about electric cars so I don’t want to make this an advocacy post. I thought these articles were good, and they kind of address your questions - one in more detail. But seriously, cars are sort of personal. Drive several EVs, and decide if they are right for you. And if so, look for deals. EV demand, inventory, and prices will probably go in cycles. If there are several on the lot, make an offer.

About the subsidy - if the vehicle qualifies for the 2024 $7,500 tax credit, take it off the top of the price. The dealer will send in the paperwork and get a check. Don’t claim in on your taxes.

Leases - some vehicles qualify for a tax credit to the manufacturer but not to the consumer, if they are leased. The Toyota which I purchased did. The dealer is not obligated to pass the subsidy to the lessee, but Toyota did in my case. So I paid off the lease and purchased the vehicle 30 days after leasing it, and effectively received the subsidy. If might be worth looking into, as a workaround if the vehicle does not qualify for the credit/subsidy to a purchaser.

In short, EVs are cheaper in the long run if compared to similar ICE vehicles, though it depends on make, model, availability of the subsidy, location and cost of charging. The real question is whether you personally like the car and the price, and whether you can accept the trade-off of not having a charging station every 5 miles like gas stations, but being able to charge at home on most days.

I absolutely defy anyone to show me a car with lower cost to operate than my 2006 Lincoln Town Car that I've been driving for the last 14 years. 149,000 miles and gets 21.8 mpg~!

 

[Brians356]

I absolutely defy anyone to show me a car with lower cost to operate than my 2006 Lincoln Town Car that I've been driving for the last 14 years. 149,000 miles and gets 21.8 mpg~!

My '92 Honda Civic VX hatch 5-speed with 250,000 miles gets 37 to 40 mpg in town, 48 mpg highway. Not a cozy limo like your Linc, though.
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