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Electric Cars -- anyone own one?

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Cher is like my 1967 Chevelle Malibu.

The only original part on it is the windshield wiper motor…….and I have my doubts about that.;)
That's a danged fine windshield wiper motor to be kicking since '67'. But I guess I've got one in a Ford that's been chugging along since 68. I wonder if the ones in a Tesla are that good?? jd
 
Yahoo Finance today:

Hertz went all in on Tesla — and is paying the price

Hertz's large Telsa fleet hasn't worked out well for the company as it's dealing with a $245 million loss from the premature sale of 20,000 Teslas, which have been dragging on its finances. Now, the rental car company is reconsidering its entire EV strategy.

Hertz, in reporting an adjusted loss of $1.36 per share, wider than the $0.76 loss expected, was saddled with losses stemming from its decision to sell 20,000 Teslas, representing a third of its EV fleet. Hertz said last month it would take a $245 million charge from the sale of those cars due to high depreciation costs, in addition to higher costs for repairs for EVs, which dragged on the bottom line.

“We continue to experience elevated collision and damage in the quarter, largely driven by costs associated with running our EV fleet, and perhaps more significantly, the challenge of the EVs had an impact on our operational efficiency more generally, further supporting the advisability of our EV sales plan,” Hertz's CEO, Stephen Scherr, said on the Q4 earnings conference call.
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I'm so glad you brought up Porsche's "green" fuel. The stuff they doled out at some races last year cost about $45 per gallon to produce. I pieced together the following narrative from a 2023 story in Industry Decarbonization Newsletter:

As you may know, the South American plant is in Chile, the Hanu Oni project, operated by a company called HIF Global, and subsidized by the German government, Siemens-Energy, Porsche, and other companies.

The idea of e-fuels is to use renewable electricity to synthesize chemicals that can be used as fuels. Ideally, burning them causes only as much carbon dioxide as what has been used in their production. E-fuels are controversial, as producing them is very inefficient. However, a vocal group of people, particularly in Germany, believes that e-fuels will play a significant role as a future fuel for cars.

A single wind turbine currently powers the plant, on the barren coast of Chile simply because it's one of the most consistently windy places on Earth. The electricity is used to run electrolyzers that split water into hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen is then used together with carbon dioxide to synthesize methanol.

Until recently, HIF and its project partners had communicated that the plant would use carbon dioxide directly from the air! But the direct air capture facility for the Haru Oni plant has yet to be built. For the Haru Oni demonstration plant, the carbon dioxide comes from a biogenic source (fermentation process of a brewery). This is a temporary CO₂ source while they wait for the direct air capture technology to be ready. After some media reports highlighted the lack of a direct air capture facility, HIF and its partners have removed corresponding claims from their web site.

Haru Oni is a small demonstration plant producing methanol from green hydrogen and biogenic carbon dioxide. A small fraction of that methanol is turned into gasoline. The technology works, but it is small scale. The output of the demonstration plant will be only 130,000 liters of synthetic gasoline, less than one gas station's worth. HIF has plans to expand production. In two steps, capacity is planned to be increased to 55 million liters e-gasoline per year by 2025 and over 550 million liters per year by 2027. To put this in perspective, while only a small demonstration plant is running right now, HIF had announced increasing production 400-fold in the next two years and 4,000-fold two years later.

These are bold plans. However, this is unlikely to happen, as the construction of these much larger production facilities has not even started. Plans are to build a larger production plant in the Cabo Negro industrial area. There already exists a fossil-fuel-based methanol plant by the company Methanex in Cabu Negro. HIF announced in October last year that the company withdrew the environmental permit application for the wind park that was supposed to power the facility in Cabo Negro.

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The decarbonization newsletter written by a German green zealot may not be the best source for objective reporting.
Exxon is the principle partner, primarily because they own the methane to gasoline
technology that goes back to the 80’s. Exxon has already indicated major budjet expansion.
Yes, quite expensive now. If it hits critical mass that will drop big time.
This is one of two synthetic paths…….stay tuned, especially given the trillions expected in this fantasy electronic world in the next 10 years……more like 30-40.
 
The decarbonization newsletter written by a German green zealot may not be the best source for objective reporting.
"May not"? The simple facts provided are readily available elsewhere, for example from Porsche, Siemens, and Motor Trend. Which facts reported by the so-called zealot are erroneous or fake?

In the event, why would a "green zealot" write and article denigrating a "green fuel" pilot process?
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My point was to dispute the claim that EV subsidies favor "low-income" people. I would think that fails an initial sniff test.
You miss-quoted me, in quotes yet! :). What I said is that the tax credit would help “lower income buyers“. This was in bold print. My point is that the credit is really a subsidy that can be used regardless of the amount of tax owed, and therefore regardless of income, because it is applied off the top of the purchase price regardless of the buyer’s tax obligation. It works as a subsidy for lower income buyers who pay less than $7,500 tax. Otherwise, it would only be a benefit that higher income buyers, owing at least $7,500 in income tax, could use. Thus, a $39,000 VW iD4 can be purchased for $31,500 regardless of your tax obligation. This is the primary point of the article which I cited. I’m guessing you didn’t read it.

I know it’s a small point (6.5 CM), but in marksmanship accuracy matters.
 
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You miss-quoted me, in quotes yet! :). What I said is that the tax credit would help “lower income buyers“. This was in bold print.
Boy, you got me there. Tax credits will help the rare lower income buyer more than any of the typical EV buyers with plenty of disposable income.
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Boy, you got me there. Tax credits will help the rare lower income buyer more than any of the typical EV buyers with plenty of disposable income.
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But for lower income buyers it’s not a tax credit - it’s actually a direct subsidy. But “lower” is relative. It’s not the same thing as “low”. In this case, words matter.

And nothing anyone says can make me buy a 6.5 Creedmoor rifle. They burn out barrels, they don’t work in the cold, and they are overpriced. Anyone says otherwise is an earth muffin liberal.
 
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So, if I was a lower income buyer, what kind of dollars would I have to spend to be able to use this vehicle as a daily driver for let's say 200 miles per day? This would include having a charging system installed at my home plus daily charging. What about repairs? What is the cost compared to a ICE vehicle?
Overall are they a true value? Completely setting the green thing aside. Would I profit from purchasing one?
I like the sound of that Volt that Jackie has.
 
So, if I was a lower income buyer, what kind of dollars would I have to spend to be able to use this vehicle as a daily driver for let's say 200 miles per day? This would include having a charging system installed at my home plus daily charging. What about repairs? What is the cost compared to a ICE vehicle?
Overall are they a true value? Completely setting the green thing aside. Would I profit from purchasing one?
I like the sound of that Volt that Jackie has.
Easy question, complex answer.

If you’re truly low income, low net worth, the difference between an entry level gas car vs electric will be around $20,000, before any incentives.

200 miles a day, you will start saving sooner rather than later, but it depends on what the gas vehicle costs to run. If your current fuel bill is is in excess of $4000 a year, you can probably break even on the purchase price in about 5 years.

If you were going to purchase a $40,000 car anyway, you could start saving money in a year or two.

The cost to install a charger varies greatly. The condition of your current house and electric service provided will determine what level charger you can install. Older houses and areas can get interesting.

With a 100 amp panel and a lot of draw on the panel it gets interesting. Most of the chargers are a “smart charger” in that they read available amperage, amperage in use and calculate the rate of charge they will provide. With the heat or A/C running and the water heater kicks on, the charger is considered non essential And throttles back the charge rate. How much depends on the charger.

So just preparing for a charger could basically range from nothing to adding service to the house, re wiring, changing the panel.

Will your HOA even allow an outside charger. When you can’t get homeowners insurance for an inside charger?
Can you even park a car outside?

Repair cost is another touchy subject. There is maintenance, and there are repairs.
For the most part maintenance will be less, repairs exponentially more.

Even on combustion vehicles you can group repairs into mechanical and electrical, typically electronic diagnostics far exceed the cost of mechanical.

Body repairs currently are much more costly and the likely hood of a total vehicle loss in a collision more likely for an EV. This brings into consideration something else for insurance.

Sine we’re talking lower income owners who would likely need to finance the purchase, the subject of gap insurance needs to laid on the table. Sign the purchase agreement, lose 10% value, drive it off the lot and lose another 10%. You owe 100%, insurance pays 75-80% when you wreck it at the first light. Gap insurance covers the difference.

Looking at the current rate of depreciation for EV’s, that will be another long term cost for many owners as banks won’t finance without it.

Lots of hidden questions concerning the ownership of an EV. I’ve had a couple customers who for one or more of the above reasons would have to move to a new house to own an EV.
 
dellet, thank you for such a deep explanation of my questions. I appreciate it. I do own my home outright, owe nothing on anything, wife and I have been retired for about 2 years now on a modest income. At 64 I may have only 1 more new vehicle in the remainder of my lifetime.
I'm still driving my '01 Silverado.
 
"May not"? The simple facts provided are readily available elsewhere, for example from Porsche, Siemens, and Motor Trend. Which facts reported by the so-called zealot are erroneous or fake?

In the event, why would a "green zealot" write and article denigrating a "green fuel" pilot process?
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Because the larger mission is the death of ICE.
EXXON is not known for investing in a simple “science project”.
perhaps you missed the point about Germany, and a few others demanding carve outs for synthetic fuels. Sounds like somebody takes it seriously.
 
If this trend were to proceed the way the Left wants it to, (reducing fuels to near nonexistence), do you think they’d be Bold enough to grossly Increase the Rates, once they’ve established a monopoly? Or to monitor and control your Usage?? :oops:
How long before all Electricity would become Federalized?
Can some people not function, without the Government Governing every aspect of their lives? Do you really need another arm in your pocket, or foot on your head? A corrupt commy organization dictating your Usages?
Smart meters will keep tabs on your homes and your Vehicles kwh usages, and shut you down when they determine You’ve had enough for now!
It’s about Control, and ridiculous Greed.
This has ZERO to do with Clean Energy.
Considering cradle to grave processes, EVs are filthy for the environment, and Greatly depend on fuels for their mere existence.
Are other countries as hell bent on “saving” the environment? LOL, no.
Who hasn’t seen enough yet, on where they are determined to force America’s future?
Compliance will make it all possible. :mad:
 
Overall are they a true value? Completely setting the green thing aside. Would I profit from purchasing one?
Did you miss the Hertz' debacle I posted about above? Hertz said last month it would take a $245 million write-off from the premature sale of 20,000 EVs due to high depreciation costs, in addition to higher costs for repairs for EVs. This after they loudly signaled their green virtuousness by spending $millions on advertising. Having to climb down and eat crow so soon must have been a humiliating experience.
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A. Do you actually believe Chinese PR? All Li batteries are vulnerable to water.
B. Never make it to the US
C. Just read a major industry research report,there are a lot of Chinese EV companies……95% of them don’t make money and are expected to disappear within 5 years.
BYD is the world largest EV maker and isn't going to disappear. The Chinese auto makers produced 20,000,000 cars last year.
Here is some interesting points. In 2023 China became the worlds biggest exporter of cars passing Japan. In the final quarter of 2023 the Chinese auto company BYD passed Tesla as a manufacturer of purely battery powered vehicles. It started as a battery company. Last year it sold 3million ev or hybrid vehicles in 70 countries. THe Chinese bought 22 million passanger vehicles in 2022. China presently makes 70% of the worlds lithium-ion batteries .
 
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