E-Targets for F-Class

[Jdne5b]

Hopefully the staff who approves the "Registering" of matches knows that rule.

 

[DE-F-Open]

I don't have a problem with that. Did you ask them where this was published as that is rather a big change from the current published rules in the May 2018 NRA High Power Rifle Rules booklet.

I just checked the NRAHQ.org website, and the current rules booklet is the same as I have, dated May 2018 and does not contain anything about this new rule.

He said they should be posted "this week".... They were passed by the Board in January....

 

[ben_g]

Someone asked a question are shooters improving their scores by shooting fast?

Well here in australia we currently do not have a rule mandating a delay on our E-targets, even in major comps.

I can assure you guys that 10 shot stings are being fired in well under a minute and 15shot strings in just over a minute when conditions allow and shooters are doing very well score wise.

Dual ports and ammo caddies right next to the loading port are becoming more common.

Personally I don’t like that direction and would like to see our powers in Australia make the same ruling and implement a delay of around 7seconds as well.

If ET’s are to replace a manual target they should behave like one.

In the meantime, I have my ammo caddy, I have installed an ejector in my bolt so I can keep up with the ‘race’ if need be and I have stocked up on 6mm bullets as you can run a Dasher very fast on ET’s when conditions allow.

 

[GSS]

He said they should be posted "this week".... They were passed by the Board in January....

If you have a link to where they get posted please share here.
These can be difficult to find at times.
Tks, George

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

He said they should be posted "this week".... They were passed by the Board in January....

Ok, so that will apply to 2020 competitions.

And I can't wait to see the way they wrote the rule; the NRA is notorious for vague rules that do not fit real life. We need to make sure whatever they come up with makes sense and is usable.

 

[RDavies]

Someone asked a question are shooters improving their scores by shooting fast?

Well here in australia we currently do not have a rule mandating a delay on our E-targets, even in major comps.

I can assure you guys that 10 shot stings are being fired in well under a minute and 15shot strings in just over a minute when conditions allow and shooters are doing very well score wise.

Dual ports and ammo caddies right next to the loading port are becoming more common.

Personally I don’t like that direction and would like to see our powers in Australia make the same ruling and implement a delay of around 7seconds as well.

If ET’s are to replace a manual target they should behave like one.

In the meantime, I have my ammo caddy, I have installed an ejector in my bolt so I can keep up with the ‘race’ if need be and I have stocked up on 6mm bullets as you can run a Dasher very fast on ET’s when conditions allow.

Exactly, well said. After seeing the way F class is going in Australia, being plagued with no delay ETs, I have made the decision not to support any competitions using ETs by not giving them my entry fees. I also got 6MMs, dual ports, got ejectors fitted, got my ammo caddy (which I still use) and learned my E target strategy to keep up with the pack in competitions. In the last comp I ever shot on ETs, after machine gunning the shots down without even seeing a wind flag once I started shooting, only popping my head up to see where my group was forming on the monitor every 3rd shot, I realised this wasn't the way I wanted F class to go and it would be my last comp on no delay ETs.

 

[mgdietrich]

Ok, so that will apply to 2020 competitions.

And I can't wait to see the way they wrote the rule; the NRA is notorious for vague rules that do not fit real life. We need to make sure whatever they come up with makes sense and is usable.

NOPE- that would be for 2019 competitions....

 

[KenOath]

Larry,

I just checked with the Chairman of the High Power Committee and with Aaron Farmer who runs the High Power section at NRA Competitions, both of whom confirm that the rules for the use of E-Targets for F-Class competitions now REQUIRE a 7-second delay for all registered tournaments.

This rule was adopted by the NRA Board of Directors in January and conforms with what the subcommittee recommended to the HP Committee over a year ago - Farmer says he is in the process of having all of the 2019 rules changes properly posted.

So - the 7-second rule applies to all F-Class e-target registered tournaments. Hope all of the manufacturers get the software changes to the clubs ASAP.

John

Ok some middle ground...now the guns can do the talkin!!!

 

[WindSurgeon]

As well you should, it's an inane question. Not only that but it's actually insulting in several ways.

.....

I retract my question. My appologies for any insult.

 

[RDA72927]

Ok some middle ground...now the guns can do the talkin!!!

The Guns and the Shooters work HAS always done the talking... Nothing changed..

 

[Bindi2]

Exactly, well said. After seeing the way F class is going in Australia, being plagued with no delay ETs, I have made the decision not to support any competitions using ETs by not giving them my entry fees. I also got 6MMs, dual ports, got ejectors fitted, got my ammo caddy (which I still use) and learned my E target strategy to keep up with the pack in competitions. In the last comp I ever shot on ETs, after machine gunning the shots down without even seeing a wind flag once I started shooting, only popping my head up to see where my group was forming on the monitor every 3rd shot, I realised this wasn't the way I wanted F class to go and it would be my last comp on no delay ETs.

Well we wont be seeing you in WA then Rod. Manual targets are nearly all gone. Penalizing shooters who can make fast accurate decisions over those who cant is taking the sport down to the lowest common denominator. Fast shooting is a skill and needs an iron will to control or big train wrecks occur.

 

[KenOath]

The Guns and the Shooters work HAS always done the talking... Nothing changed..

And now officially on E Targets..

 

[RDavies]

Well we wont be seeing you in WA then Rod. Manual targets are nearly all gone. Penalizing shooters who can make fast accurate decisions over those who cant is taking the sport down to the lowest common denominator. Fast shooting is a skill and needs an iron will to control or big train wrecks occur.

No, you wont be seeing me in WA. Not having delays in ETs is not penalising people who can make fast accurate decisions, that is already needed with proper targets. It just makes it easier not to need to make fast accurate decisions, just chase the spotter.

 

[ben_g]

Pair firing and having to release your shot within 60seconds requires a fast and accurate decision.

No delay and string firing let’s you wait out for your condition and fire fast when it’s there. Chasing the spotter and ignoring the flags.
Yes it’s a skill, and yes I’ll do it while it’s in the rules, but it’s not the essence of F-class which is a wind reading and deliberate fire discipline, not becnhrest.

However I like attending shoots too much so will still attend them ET or not ET, but the ET should be calibrated to mimic a manual target.

 

[ben_g]

And on the issue of a crossfire, this is where the ET vendors need to step up to the plate and make us targets that accomodate F-class course of fire.

The target should give a visual (and possibly audible) confirmation upon receiving a hit. Then the screen should display perhaps (IN PIT) for the stipulated 7 or 10seconds before displaying the score.

If the target was to receive a hit during the IN PIT stage it simply needs to advise (crossfire detected). After all you can’t crossfire on a target that’s IN PIT.

Also if someone crossfires on your manual target your not going to be able to fire for the 7 to 10seconds it takes to come back up, so this software tweak makes no difference to the course of fire in a match between a manual or ET

Then you could ask the vendor to program the software to either completely discount the late shot or display it when the target comes (out of pit)

Instead of moaning and groaning about crossfires being such an issue we need the ET vendors to provide this extra little bit of software code.

ET’s are great at displaying the position of the shot, the next stage in their evolution is to program them to behave as a manual target would. It’s pretty simple stuff in 2019

 

[Bindi2]

No, you wont be seeing me in WA. Not having delays in ETs is not penalising people who can make fast accurate decisions, that is already needed with proper targets. It just makes it easier not to need to make fast accurate decisions, just chase the spotter.

Rod I have been scoring for a very fast shooter who dosent look at the monitor much at all, he runs on the flags. Funny enough he sits on the top mostly.

 

[Bindi2]

And on the issue of a crossfire, this is where the ET vendors need to step up to the plate and make us targets that accomodate F-class course of fire.

The target should give a visual (and possibly audible) confirmation upon receiving a hit. Then the screen should display perhaps (IN PIT) for the stipulated 7 or 10seconds before displaying the score.

If the target was to receive a hit during the IN PIT stage it simply needs to advise (crossfire detected). After all you can’t crossfire on a target that’s IN PIT.

Also if someone crossfires on your manual target your not going to be able to fire for the 7 to 10seconds it takes to come back up, so this software tweak makes no difference to the course of fire in a match between a manual or ET

Then you could ask the vendor to program the software to either completely discount the late shot or display it when the target comes (out of pit)

Instead of moaning and groaning about crossfires being such an issue we need the ET vendors to provide this extra little bit of software code.

ET’s are great at displaying the position of the shot, the next stage in their evolution is to program them to behave as a manual target would. It’s pretty simple stuff in 2019

So all the ET systems that cant be upgraded will have to be trash binned. We already have issues with systems that wont take upgrades and you have to buy a complete system target frame included which is the same as the one you have. ET vendors sell systems and fix issues within that system.

 

[ben_g]

That’s a load of rubbish.

Any vendor who cannot upgrade firmware as such isn’t worth a cracker!!

Of course it can be sorted.

We don’t make enough noise is the problem so we get what they want to give is not what we need.

 

[ngb1787]

So all the ET systems that cant be upgraded will have to be trash binned. We already have issues with systems that wont take upgrades and you have to buy a complete system target frame included which is the same as the one you have. ET vendors sell systems and fix issues within that system.

SMT is coming with a delay upgrade in the future,

 

[ben_g]

And as to the notion that frames and hardware at the target end would need to be scrapped.......

Also a load of rubbish.

At worst it would mean new mound monitors with more processing power.

I’m pretty sure your thinking Konsberg.