Status of NRA rules, E-Targets, certification and records?

[DE-F-Open]

The Space coast 600 was the best run match I attended last year. But they only checked on errant shots outside the 9 ring was my understanding. The accuracy of anything else wasn’t checked.

I think you are correct.

 

[Stumpy1]

As Promised, here is my Question to Aaron Farmer, and his response;

I have a question: it has come up that the exemption that the NRA has granted uncertified electronic targets has expired, and folks are wondering ‘what do we do now?’
Any help you can provide would as always, be VERY MUCH appreciated.

Aaron's response:
Frank,

As of right now I am still running them on an exempt status. I’ll accept scores and records. I am currently working on a certification process but It may take me a bit to get it going. You are still good to continue to use the target systems you have been using.

Aaron

So, there you have it, right from the horse's mouth -keep running what you have been up until now.

Frank

 

[Erud]

Perfect, then it's time to get to work on my system that plots all shots into the X-ring. 200-175x at 1000 here I come!

 

[sdean]

As Promised, here is my Question to Aaron Farmer, and his response;

I have a question: it has come up that the exemption that the NRA has granted uncertified electronic targets has expired, and folks are wondering ‘what do we do now?’
Any help you can provide would as always, be VERY MUCH appreciated.

Aaron's response:
Frank,

As of right now I am still running them on an exempt status. I’ll accept scores and records. I am currently working on a certification process but It may take me a bit to get it going. You are still good to continue to use the target systems you have been using.

Aaron

So, there you have it, right from the horse's mouth -keep running what you have been up until now.

Frank

One little email to the right place and maybe this thread is dead.

 

[sdean]

Perfect, then it's time to get to work on my system that plots all shots into the X-ring. 200-175x at 1000 here I come!

You are the only person that mentioned anything about cheating in this thread.

 

[Erud]

You are the only person that mentioned anything about cheating in this thread.

Yeah, that’s because I’m a big cheater when it comes to competitive shooting. Just ask anyone who knows me.

 

[davidjoe]

Yeah, that’s because I’m a big cheater when it comes to competitive shooting. Just ask anyone who knows me.

Lol. Do you get away with it, though? Putting plans on here is a questionable cheating strategy.

I tell everyone, probably going to blow up some heavies in a Saum today, guess I’ll reshoot . Guys are like, “meh”, beat him anyway.

 

[Erud]

Lol. Do you get away with it, though? Putting plans on here is a questionable cheating strategy.

We shall have to wait and see. At any rate, I’m not even sure it’d be cheating. The NRA is currently accepting records fired on any sort of untested, unverified e-target at all, what would be the grounds for disallowing mine? Ever see what happens when 2 wires get crossed on a shotmarker? I have. I’ve also seen a really good shooter be allowed to finish a string for record on a target wired that way even after it was discovered. Have any national records ever been fired under circumstances like that? Who knows at this point.

 

[sdean]

Lol. Do you get away with it, though? Putting plans on here is a questionable cheating strategy.

I tell everyone, probably going to blow up some heavies in a Saum today, guess I’ll reshoot . Guys are like, “meh”, beat him anyway.

Have you figured out how to blow up 9’s instead of x’s. I don’t think your blow up scheme will help you.
Same with the trick target. Probably a match director wouldn’t let you show up and shoot on your own target at a registered match.

 

[flintcreek6412]

You really want to burst someone's bubble when they think they shot a NR on an ET. Push the "F" button when you notice they were set on "Iron" and watch that record score become slightly above average.

 

[Dos XX]

Ah hell. Run them on exempt status? Why didn't I think of that?

 

[Erud]

Have you figured out how to blow up 9’s instead of x’s. I don’t think your blow up scheme will help you.
Same with the trick target. Probably a match director wouldn’t let you show up and shoot on your own target at a registered match.

I’ll register the match with the nra myself, and we’ll use my system. They have allowed literally any system based solely on the idea that they probably work. If you don’t think so, show me any system that has been tested and approved for NRA competition. Or conversely, show me a record that has been rejected or disallowed due to an e-target issue. All kinds of records have been shot on all kinds of targets that no one has tested or verified.

I have memberships at 3 different clubs and all 3 have e-targets. One is set up extremely well, and has very few problems. Another has shotmarker mics attached to old warped target frames, and has more frequent problems. The 3rd is a hard-wired system that is very solid, but is pretty limited by hardware and software. None of the 3 are perfect, nor are any of the other systems at clubs I’ve shot at around the country. I’ve never shot a match on e-targets anywhere where there were no technical issues whatsoever. The incident I mentioned above happened at a club with an extremely well-built and set up system, and was not the fault of the shooter. Crossed wires when the target was put up in the morning, and it didn’t get noticed until later in the day. In case you don’t know, elevation plots about perfectly flat when this happens. There weren’t any National records shot on that target that day, but I can definitely see how it could happen. If you don’t think it could, you are only kidding yourself. I prefer to shoot on e-targets over pulled targets, but there are things that need to be straightened out, and it was a mistake to allow national records to be accepted on them before there was any real understanding of the systems. The NRA makes a lot of mistakes.

Anyways, my system will probably work too, which is good enough. Come out to the match, I’ll get you set up with a real nice one.

 

[Warren Dean]

One little email to the right place and maybe this thread is dead.

We should be so lucky....

 

[Warren Dean]

You really want to burst someone's bubble when they think they shot a NR on an ET. Push the "F" button when you notice they were set on "Iron" and watch that record score become slightly above average.

A buddy of mine did that at the FCNC in Lodi several years back. He was on cloud nine after shooting a 200. Then I saw what was going on and switched the plot to F and he was crushed but good natured about it.

 

[Warren Dean]

You know, all this back and forth about possibly cheating, gaming the system and all that stuff is sad to see. It wasn't too long ago that the mere mention of something like that would have meant that the poster would have been excoriated for being a cheating bastard by nearly everyone. What has happened to honor and sportsmanship in the context of even contemplating those things, let alone say it out loud??

 

[Erud]

You know, all this back and forth about possibly cheating, gaming the system and all that stuff is sad to see. It wasn't too long ago that the mere mention of something like that would have meant that the poster would have been excoriated for being a cheating bastard by nearly everyone. What has happened to honor and sportsmanship in the context of even contemplating those things, let alone say it out loud??

Man, some of you guys are just ridiculous.

 

[Warren Dean]

Man, some of you guys are just ridiculous.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[davidjoe]

You know, all this back and forth about possibly cheating, gaming the system and all that stuff is sad to see. It wasn't too long ago that the mere mention of something like that would have meant that the poster would have been excoriated for being a cheating bastard by nearly everyone. What has happened to honor and sportsmanship in the context of even contemplating those things, let alone say it out loud??

Interesting take on a problem only the NRA created. I think it’s more of an expression of disappointment in finagled and inconsistent rules than an actual plan to cheat, publicly announced to everyone. I mean, the NRA writes one thing in the form of a rule, then privately says it’s not following that rule, to just one person, only after being asked. Not to excoriate the NRA, which is in a tough, no win situation, but this business of no read reshooting is not so much a rule as it is a capitulation.

Before this thread, we would all assume the rule means no etargets on certain classes of matches as it says. But actually, no, we all should have known if the NRA hasn’t verified any targets, then of course the Rule isn’t in effect. This means that all observers of the rule just put themselves at a disadvantage or inconvenience. Some matches might have actually cleared a record score.

Then there is the reason of why they haven’t verified any targets. IMO, because the politics and fallout of passing judgment on huge clusters and classes of equipment is a bite too big to chew.

 

[Erud]

Now there’s a man that gets it.

To Warren Dean and others; I must confess that davidjoe is correct. I never really intended to go forward with the diabolical plan build my own rigged target system for the sole purpose of setting bogus national records. It seems sort of silly that that actually needs to be explained, hence the “some of you guys are just ridiculous” comment.

The NRA opened a Pandora’s box by allowing this to get to where we are now, with a whole lot of officially recognized records that were fired on systems that can’t be quantified in any way. Whether you love e-targets or hate them, that’s a fact.

 

[Jennb]

So much controversy over national records and etargets. As someone who has shot a couple national records I can tell you a couple were shot on etargets and since then I have bested my own records on pulled targets in major events.
So was one record better than the other? Absolutely yes, when dealing with manually pulled targets it is much sweeter knowing that the person or persons that worked their ass off to get your target marked and back up for you was part of your success. This is a thank you to the folks who contributed to that success by doing the pull job with diligence and great speed. Without excellent pullers and score keepers who are paying attention it would not be possible.