As is the majority of his entire post here.(hogan not dkhunt) Start with a single fact and speculate about everything else. I get it now, he works for the NYTimes.
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Do Certain Members of the Shooting Industry Owe Fiduciary Duty?
- Thread starter hogan
- Start date
, j
Hey,
Just looking to quibble? The point was that unless the bulletmaker made specific super VLD bullets, they would not specify a fast twist barrel. Yeah, I know about Berger, I had some 90gr JLK and still have some 90gr SMK. Lots of 300gr .338 due to the Lapua and Norma magnums. Most .338 chambered rifles aren't throated for the long 300gr bullets; and Speer hasn't made their 270gr hunting bullet in a long time.
Would be kind of stupid to gripe about the .338 Federal not having data for the 300gr bullet. Some of those bullets are almost as long as the case. Now the .338 Whisper IS made to shoot those heavies, just at low or subsonic velocity. In the early 00s the Whisper was a popular round. Maybe just a curiosity since the .300 blackout was introed.
Looks very apparent to me that Nosler, Berger, Hornady are the only bulletmakers that are bringing innovation, and new data to the handloader. Maybe their legal team didn't get the memo that they should stop releasing data or limit what they release to only a couple of powders only. Accurate, now Western is about the only powder seller to release a comprehensive loading book. Been what? 20yrs since Hodgdon #26?
IMR and Hercules always had those little give-away books for free at the gun shop. Nice, but hardly comprehensive. Lee is unique in that it only sells tools, but they did put together a great resource for loaders. Never an RCBS or Redding Book. Lyman probably the BEST Resource in loading as they do more than anyone considering shotgun and casting; probably they also do a Blackpowder book, since they make muzzleloading firearms. Lyman don't sell bullets or powder, unless you count their great lineup of molds.
Really kind of childish to open your remarks with "This is not True!" You guys seem to have learned your discussion skills from Rules For Radicals, by Saul Alinsky. Nothing like misrepresenting facts and getting all huffy and blowing steam....
Hey,
Just looking to quibble? The point was that unless the bulletmaker made specific super VLD bullets, they would not specify a fast twist barrel. Yeah, I know about Berger, I had some 90gr JLK and still have some 90gr SMK. Lots of 300gr .338 due to the Lapua and Norma magnums. Most .338 chambered rifles aren't throated for the long 300gr bullets; and Speer hasn't made their 270gr hunting bullet in a long time.
Would be kind of stupid to gripe about the .338 Federal not having data for the 300gr bullet. Some of those bullets are almost as long as the case. Now the .338 Whisper IS made to shoot those heavies, just at low or subsonic velocity. In the early 00s the Whisper was a popular round. Maybe just a curiosity since the .300 blackout was introed.
Looks very apparent to me that Nosler, Berger, Hornady are the only bulletmakers that are bringing innovation, and new data to the handloader. Maybe their legal team didn't get the memo that they should stop releasing data or limit what they release to only a couple of powders only. Accurate, now Western is about the only powder seller to release a comprehensive loading book. Been what? 20yrs since Hodgdon #26?
IMR and Hercules always had those little give-away books for free at the gun shop. Nice, but hardly comprehensive. Lee is unique in that it only sells tools, but they did put together a great resource for loaders. Never an RCBS or Redding Book. Lyman probably the BEST Resource in loading as they do more than anyone considering shotgun and casting; probably they also do a Blackpowder book, since they make muzzleloading firearms. Lyman don't sell bullets or powder, unless you count their great lineup of molds.
Really kind of childish to open your remarks with "This is not True!" You guys seem to have learned your discussion skills from Rules For Radicals, by Saul Alinsky. Nothing like misrepresenting facts and getting all huffy and blowing steam....
KMart
Gold $$ Contributor
Learn to use the internet
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ Covers IMR, Hodgdon, Winchester
http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx?page=/reloaders/index.aspx&
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KMart
Gold $$ Contributor
My mom passed away in October. For 9 months I stayed with her 16 hrs a day, 7 days a week, on the night shift. She had dementia and finally passed from Alzheimers. This sounds a lot like conversations I had with her.
You have my sympathy, my brothers and sisters did the same for our mother after her stroke. I removed my post because I didn't want to make light of those in your situation. My apologies
Unfortunately, I got sucked into this thread. I thought it would be an interesting, thought provoking topic, but to sum up the OP (and save everyone the headache)....
"hey, someone, somewhere owes me something."
...The end.
"hey, someone, somewhere owes me something."
...The end.
KMart said
My mom passed away in October. For 9 months I stayed with her 16 hrs a day, 7 days a week, on the night shift. She had dementia and finally passed from Alzheimers. This sounds a lot like conversations I had with her.
My mom passed away in October. For 9 months I stayed with her 16 hrs a day, 7 days a week, on the night shift. She had dementia and finally passed from Alzheimers. This sounds a lot like conversations I had with her.
Another guy with -0- reading comprehension. No wonder you guys don't concern yourselves with loading data; it is not within your powers of comprehension.
Looking at a MidSouth Shooters catalog from 2008 and the 2014 A catalog from Sinclair, which were laying around. I noted that there was a 15% increase in bullet costs on the Sierra 6.5 142smk and the .30 175smk. Looking at Sierra lists on Sinclair today, the costs are up between 10 & 15% further in 3 yrs.....
Supply and demand, eh? Well, this works out to a $10 increase in a box of 100 bullets on the wholesale level. At a time when there was no funding for data development; or no funding being spent for data.... Also was a time when Copper and Lead were at all time highs, but since 2012 they've collapsed to very low levels; maybe historic low levels... Then, govt tells us there was no inflation...
Kind of like when candy bars and soda went from a dime to a quarter. There was a big run up in sugar prices on the commodity markets and the general inflation of the early mid 70s; but when the sugar prices fell back to where they had been and remained for years; prices did not come down.
Data is evidently expensive to produce, and fewer books are being sold. Cost accounting principles suggest that everycompany that sells bullets and generates data will seek to recoup that cost with every box of bullets it sells. Same way with powder sellers that generate data for loader use.
Sierra has cheated their customers and the company by not generating data for the last 8 or 15 yrs; whichever you want to believe. 8yrs is more like 20yrs in this fast growing shooting industry. Pretty unlikely we will ever see another book or web app for data from them.
Bullets are not priced as a commodity. They aren't all alike, and each design in same caliber and weight can have different pressure characteristics. Customers pay for data from the maker, with every purchase whether they use that data or not.
In your second post you state that the 375 Ruger is a very popular caliber. In the whole eastern part of this country we don't even have a need for something that big to hunt with and I don't see it being used for anything else. And out west where you have way bigger game there is better calibers. So why make such a big deal about data for a caliber that is rarely used? Do your homework as others have already said. You are just digging yourself a deeper hole by belittling everybody.
Hogan, Using your so called superior intelligence, please answer this: Which is more likely? A)everyone on this forum is completely mistaken and or ignorant B) You are. Please use just a letter to answer, any other words are obfuscation.
Have you e
Have you ever heard the expression "comparing apples to apples" Sinclair's prices have always been higher than Midsouth, I'm surprised you didn't see a bigger difference. In the more recent comparison of Sinclair to itself, did you ever consider..wait, of course you didn't...the price structure may have changed on bullets after Brownells bought them out? Some on here tell me not to feed the troll, but to shoot holes in your arguments is so easy, it makes this dumb ol kentucky boy feel purty smart
From your own post you are some kind of business man
"There was a big run up in sugar prices on the commodity markets"
whoops, now you are a commodities broker
"Cost accounting principles suggest"
whoops, now you are an accountant
"Sierra has cheated their customers"
whoops, now you are a lawyer
Is there any chance you were ever a stockbroker? If so, just tell your clients not to invest in this sneaky underhanded dishonest business of reloading
whoops, now you are an economist
"There was a big run up in sugar prices on the commodity markets"
whoops, now you are a commodities broker
"Cost accounting principles suggest"
whoops, now you are an accountant
"Sierra has cheated their customers"
whoops, now you are a lawyer
Is there any chance you were ever a stockbroker? If so, just tell your clients not to invest in this sneaky underhanded dishonest business of reloading
whoops, now you are a psychic
WHoops, now an engineer
You certainly where a lot of hats, I picture you in a tall pointy one, sitting in a corner
Ladies and Gentlemen, and that other guy, before the admin kicks me off here I will leave this abomination of a thread with one final quote:
"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man"
Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow
"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man"
Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow
KMart
Gold $$ Contributor
375 Ruger.
Check here. No less than 75 bullet/powder combinations http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
Check here. No less than 75 bullet/powder combinations http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
There are a lot of people that own rifles of much larger caliber than necessary to meet their hunting needs. There are men who choose to own Shelby Mustangs, Dodge Vipers, and other exotic autos. Lots of them on the Eastern Seaboard. Lots of guys in the lower 48 like the .45-70 ever since Marlin resurrected it. With the 350gr SMK, the .375 ruger might make a decent longrange rifle. It has better ballistics than the .375 H&H which remains very popular.
Just because you don't "get it" , don't mean others don't choose to own one. There are several rifle makers chambering for the ctg. It has grown in popularity. Hornady even makes the straight walled case for wildcatters. Why go Weatherby or RUM when this case has more to offer?
The subject is not about my inability to obtain data. All I needed, I got from Nosler. I loaded some fired brass Friday and sighted a new scope, well; part of the way done.
One of the largest growth sectors in shooting, among experienced handloaders, is cast bullet loading. Lots of blackpowder shooters out there. A .375 is a midget bore compared to a .50, .54 or larger. Yet the .38/55, .375win and the H&H have a big following, and many guys hunt deer with these. Lots of .444 marlin and .45-70s out there, and Garrett & Buffalo Bore are THE ammunition for power in these rifles. They use hardcast bullets.
Since buying my first centerfire rifle, a .270win 700 BDL, I have handloaded rather than bought factory ammunition. Still the case to this day.
The fact of this topic is that the shooters who replied here are happy to remain ignorant, and unhappy with anyone who asks "Why Not", if that why not raises questions they never considered.
These loading manuals and ballistics test staff, plus supplies are very expensive. There are guys making swaged match bullets with J4 jackets who produce as good or better bullets than the corporate sellers. It might cost $5k to set up a simple swaging operation. To make hundreds or thousands per hour for real commercial operation takes expensive machinery. If you make 5,000 bullets an hour on one machine and you get $30 per hundred for bullets that wholesale guys sell for $40, then you make $1500 an hour on your machine; and that machine runs 24/7 except for maintenance & die changeover.
Maybe it cost $2,000,000 to do a book? Likely you're getting powder and primers at cost or for free. Maybe the powder sellers and bullet guys share data when doing a shoot?
The $2 million to do a book comes from part of your sales. maybe $5 per box? $5 per box of every box sold for 7yrs... maybe the bullet co finances their book so it needs $8 per box until it can repay bank for $2m plus interest?
The handloader needs data. Well sourced data to be sure and for safety.... Handloader has seen his favorite bullet co put out a new book every 7yrs since 1960 something all the way to 2003; but nothing since, and nothing in 2010 when new one should have been out or announced to soon be ready. Seven more years and still nothing.
Just amazing that the historically innovative precision bulletmaker would have let their data production slide like they did. If you bought their bullets, you've paid them to keep their data production ongoing and publish a book; or at least to have data on new ctgs when you call in.
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