Think of it this way...the cases that measure 1.412 with your measuring tools FIT your chamber. The cases that measure 1.414 with the same tools are .002 longer and don't fit. It just may be that your tools are not measuring to the exact spot on the shoulder referenced on the drawing giving you a .0095 discrepancy. Once you get your die issue resolved and are able to bump the shoulders .002, you should be in business.
Die bottoming out
- Thread starter Pigdog
- Start date
Think of it this way...the cases that measure 1.412 with your measuring tools FIT your chamber. The cases that measure 1.414 with the same tools are .002 longer and don't fit. It just may be that your tools are not measuring to the exact spot on the shoulder referenced on the drawing giving you a .0095 discrepancy. Once you get your die issue resolved and are able to bump the shoulders .002, you should be in business.
ok thanks for that hrlincoln that explains it.
SO the plot thickens I managed to hit the shellholder with some sandpaper on a glass table with some wd40 on it doing figure of 8. If you look at a shellholder from above it looks like a C on top right, so I measured the thickeness at the tips of the c and wrote this down I didn't measure the middle/back part of the c as I assumed they were the same thickness all around. So ive been sanding away measuring the tips of the c and sure enough it is reducing down. I didn't pay any attention at the start but the middle/back of the C is a fair bit thicker than the front so its kinda sloping downwards if that makes sense. Can anyone confirm with a redding shell holder that is not modified if it is the same thickness all around the C ie dead flat on top?? If this is the case for some reason the sanding has only removed the tip part of the C and not the back so if someone can confirm they shellholders should be same thickness all the way around with no downslope I will have to modify it to flatten it.
thanks
SO the plot thickens I managed to hit the shellholder with some sandpaper on a glass table with some wd40 on it doing figure of 8. If you look at a shellholder from above it looks like a C on top right, so I measured the thickeness at the tips of the c and wrote this down I didn't measure the middle/back part of the c as I assumed they were the same thickness all around. So ive been sanding away measuring the tips of the c and sure enough it is reducing down. I didn't pay any attention at the start but the middle/back of the C is a fair bit thicker than the front so its kinda sloping downwards if that makes sense. Can anyone confirm with a redding shell holder that is not modified if it is the same thickness all around the C ie dead flat on top?? If this is the case for some reason the sanding has only removed the tip part of the C and not the back so if someone can confirm they shellholders should be same thickness all the way around with no downslope I will have to modify it to flatten it.
thanks
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
The top of the shell holder to part the case sits on is a depth of .125". Your on the right track.
hi alex I'm not sure 100% what you mean. I meant if you look at the shell holder from the side, the metal is thicker at the opposite side to where the case goes in and thinner where case enters the "mouth" of the shell holder if that makes sense. Ie It is sloping downward from left to right if you were looking at the shell holder side on with the shell holder mouth being on your right side
The top portion of the shell holder should be parallel to it's base where it sits on the ram. Like Alex said, from the top to the surface where the case sits is .125", at least on the ones I measured. That surface should also be parallel to the top. The purpose of sanding it on glass is having a completely flat surface. There shouldn't be any sloping.
Side view of shell holder
T-shooter yup that explains it thanks, ive F^**(D it up. Mine is not parallel I have removed far more from the right side then the left side so mine is sloping downwards. Only I could stuff that up sanding on a glass table doing figure of 8 lol. anyway I will see how I can best get it parallel
Normal rookie mistake when sanding something down on glass or any surface for that matter. The thinnest areas get the most material removed.
Now you know where you went wrong you can address it by holding the case holder in a way that loads up the thicker side a little more and mic'ing often to follow your progress. You can always back the die out if you end up way past your sweet spot.
Ok guys so the problem has escalated. I sanded around 20 thou off the shell holder and it is now relateively even on top so i go to shoulder bump and still nothing. So without a case the die and the shell holder touch together at the top of the stroke or i can screw die down so it touches shell holder. When I put a case in and push ram down it only pushes the case so far into the die before it stops And it stops before the shell holder and die make contact. And no matter how far I screw the die down it's the same it only pushes the case so far into shell holder and won't go any further the shell holder and die don't touch. I'm going crazy here Man I already trashed one lapua case cos I was getting frustrated and pulled the due out and shoved a case in with my hand to see what the heck is going on and it got stuck so I had to rip it
Out and damage it. Anyone got any ideas??
Out and damage it. Anyone got any ideas??
i don't understand this.
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
You are saying you removed .020 sanding? That doesn't sound right. What is the measurement from the top of the shellholder to where the case sits? When you run the shell up in to the holder, can you see daylight between the top of the shell holder and the die? There are missing pieces to this puzzle.
Sorry to say, but the Lee Breech Lock system may induce excessive play due to the stack up of tolerances with those interrupted threads. As previously suggested, without a case- turn the die down until it contacts the s/h -with the ram fully raised, then with the ram lowered, can you turn the die down 1/8 turn lower- or a tad more......then fully raise the ram and lock it with the ram under tension? What I don't know is if your press has the ability to provide the camming necessary to overcome the force required for sizing without the press stretching. IMHO, replace the press with the Lee Classic Cast to avoid the inherent problems of these quick-change presses.
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It's possible but I've had 2 and haven't experienced it. If you don't tighten the adapter down all the way, it will usually wiggle. I just tighten past the little pop up locating pin (and notch in the adapter) until it's snug.
Another possibility is that the expander ball is adjusted too high causing a lockup inside the case. Try removing it and see it that helps. If it does, then adjust it. Also, is it possible it's the wrong die for that case?
Alex- The Competition shell holder would help if the OP was just on the cusp of contact. There is also the forgetfulness factor of not remembering to swap out the shell holder when doing a FS operation and messing with one's headspace.
I can't figure why you would start altering dies or shell holder until you found the problem . First thing is to remove the de priming pin . And definitely the sizeing ball .
Next you adjust the die . If you aren't bumping the shoulder when you have firm cam over . Then you start useing a feel gauge between the case and shell holder .
Normally you can get as much as 10 thousands or more in the shell holder .
I learned to find the problem before I tried fixing it . lol Larry
Obviously something is really off here. I would not have made any alterations to anything before I found the problem.
I am NOT at all familiar with your press. BUT I would suggest if that if you have any access to another manufacturers press take an un-altered shell holder and an un-altered die and try it in someones press and let them at least watch you set it up before you tell them what you are experiencing. See what you wind up with. Just a thought.
I am NOT at all familiar with your press. BUT I would suggest if that if you have any access to another manufacturers press take an un-altered shell holder and an un-altered die and try it in someones press and let them at least watch you set it up before you tell them what you are experiencing. See what you wind up with. Just a thought.
You don't even need a press you could just use a C clamp when the top ofThe shell holder hit the bottom of the die . No press will change that distance . That is max that the can be pushed together . Larry
In furtherance of a previous post, please see link below for extenders.
http://www.bullets.com/search?q=(brand:RCBS)+AND+(category:"Shell+Holders")
http://www.brownells.com/reloading/shellholders-amp-shellplates/extended-shellholders-prod39914.aspx
http://www.bullets.com/search?q=(brand:RCBS)+AND+(category:"Shell+Holders")
http://www.brownells.com/reloading/shellholders-amp-shellplates/extended-shellholders-prod39914.aspx
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Please don't confuse the readers of this thread. NO extended or competition shell holder will help with this problem. They will reduce the amount the cartridge can enter the sizing die. What is needed is the opposite.......the case must enter deeper into the die. Short of filing the top of the s/h down, or removing material from the bottom of the die, or trying the savagedasher/guffy
fix with the shims (placed in the right place) there is nothing else that can correct the problem using the existing chamber.
Note-if you opt for the shim fix- you are loosing the presses ability to permit the s/h to float which may cause other problems.
fix with the shims (placed in the right place) there is nothing else that can correct the problem using the existing chamber.Note-if you opt for the shim fix- you are loosing the presses ability to permit the s/h to float which may cause other problems.
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Then I am missing the point of the original post. He said that he cannot screw the die in far enough. Using the extender will fix that problem. If I am incorrect, please put me back onto the right road. Logically, if the case can go higher on the extended holder and the die is not screwed down all the way, but a lot less, problem should be solved.Please don't confuse the readers of this thread. NO extended or competition shell holder will help with this problem. They will reduce the amount the cartridge can enter the sizing die. What is needed is the opposite.......the case must enter deeper into the die. Short of filing the top of the s/h down, or removing material from the bottom of the die, or trying the savagedasher/guffy
Note-if you opt for the shim fix- you are loosing the presses ability to permit the s/h to float which may cause other problems.
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