Die bottoming out

[gotcha]

T-shooter yup that explains it thanks, ive F^**(D it up. Mine is not parallel I have removed far more from the right side then the left side so mine is sloping downwards. Only I could stuff that up sanding on a glass table doing figure of 8 lol. anyway I will see how I can best get it parallel[ and also turn the shell holder in my finger/QUOTE]
Your figure 8 movement is a good thing. when I reduce the height of a S/H I do the figure 8 and also turn the shell holder in my fingers by 90 degrees every 10 to 15 full figure eight strokes using 400 grit wet or dry. See if this helps. check your progress by actually sizing a case to see if you are reducing the "bump" measurement......... Once in a similar situation I ordered several shell holders from different MFG's. To my surprise the Lee shell holder was far and away more accurately machined (squarest) and most accurate in the .125" dimension.

 

[LHSmith]

Then I am missing the point of the original post. He said that he cannot screw the die in far enough. Using the extender will fix that problem. If I am incorrect, please put me back onto the right road. Logically, if the case can go higher on the extended holder and the die is not screwed down all the way, but a lot less, problem should be solved.

It can be confusing, but read Larry's post #37 and digest that awhile.

 

[PDS]

Pigdog you need to find an experienced reloader that can sit down at your bench and look over your setup. Another set of eyes and hands might spot the problem you're having. Sometimes these internet exchanges just cause more confusion on both ends of the conversation.

 

[M-61]

Pigdog you need to find an experienced reloader that can sit down at your bench and look over your setup. Another set of eyes and hands might spot the problem you're having. Sometimes these internet exchanges just cause more confusion on both ends of the conversation.

That's where I was trying to go in my post#36. Even to try a different press.
All of this because I am confused as to the actual problem.

 

[LHSmith]

I am thinking the OP has a chamber that is on the short side of the norm.....too short for an off the shelf SAAMI speced sizing die to work. This is not uncommon as this kind of thread comes up quite frequently. If I am not mistaken, although the brass has been fired multiple times, it is the OP's first attempt to set back the shoulder......the body die never did work.

 

[hogpatrol]

I am thinking the OP has a chamber that is on the short side of the norm.....too short for an off the shelf SAAMI speced sizing die to work. This is not uncommon as this kind of thread comes up quite frequently. If I am not mistaken, although the brass has been fired multiple times, it is the OP's first attempt to set back the shoulder......the body die never did work.

A good possibility, Mr. Smith, the brass may have been ok until it started to get work hardened and the die/shellholder/press setup was insufficient to bump the shoulder.

 

[Eddie Harren]

"press setup was insufficient to bump the shoulder."

fguffey tried to tell all of you all that you cannot "bump" a shoulder. Would you guys listen? Noooooooo!

 

[hogpatrol]

"press setup was insufficient to bump the shoulder."

fguffey tried to tell all of you all that you cannot "bump" a shoulder. Would you guys listen? Noooooooo!

I listened to him, just didn't hear anything.

 

[tmwinds]

File a few thou off the top of the s/h. Redding Comp s/h's ADD height......they go the wrong way. Mark the s/h, so you remember it was modified in case you have other dies pre-adjusted to that s/h.

Do exactly what LHsmith said and your problem will be solved. Removing material from the top of the shellholder will allow you to push the case deeper into the die before the shellholder contacts the base of the die. I would remove about .008-.010 based on your numbers. This should give you the adjustability you need without hitting the die base with the shellholder before you get the desired bump. Measure the thickness of the shellholder before you start and keep measuring often as you remove material. A belt sander makes quick work if you have access to one. Good luck..

 

[Pigdog]

Thanks for all the help guys. A couple of things if you refer back to T shooter picture of the shell holder I have take around 20thou of thickness off the part where it says parallel I'm not measuring from where the case sits to top it was easier for me to measure the part on the pic that says parrellel as a reference. Secondly this is a redding body die there is no expander ball or anything like that.

So my confusion is that with a case the shell holder and die won't touch so it seems it doesn't matter how much shorter the die or shell holder is it is not touching ATM so no point taking more off something is stopping the press pushing the last bit of the case in. I'm a pretty strong guy and I have put enough force where it feels like either the handle is going to snap or the press is going to rip out of the bench it shouldn't be that hard something is wrong. I will email redding as well see what they say. I don't personally know any reloaders hence asking here all my shooting mates are hunters who use factory ammo prolly a smarter choice!!!!

 

[spife7980]

Whats interesting to me is that you only needed .002 more (1.414-1.412) and even with .02 taken off you cant get the 1.414 down to 1.412 which mathematically should be possible just based on the numbers so filing wont help anything from here on out. So other avenues to pursue are...

You claim that post sanding you cant get the cases all the way into the die. Did those cases that are 1.412 and chamber come out like that after being fired? Or were you able to size some down from 1.414 to 1.412 and its only a few cases that you are having this problem with? Could you sharpie a 1.414 case all over, try to chamber and see where its contacting? Maybe a dimension is so blown out that the press/die cant over come it which is stopping it prematurely? I wouldnt have thought that was possible but I also wouldnt have thought it possible to not be able to get it fully inserted, even if that meant the case got crushed. Ive crushed a few without so much exertion that I felt the press would rip out so not sure why yours would be too different.

You are lubing them, correct?

 

[LHSmith]

Thanks for all the help guys. A couple of things if you refer back to T shooter picture of the shell holder I have take around 20thou of thickness off the part where it says parallel I'm not measuring from where the case sits to top it was easier for me to measure the part on the pic that says parrellel as a reference. Secondly this is a redding body die there is no expander ball or anything like that.

So my confusion is that with a case the shell holder and die won't touch so it seems it doesn't matter how much shorter the die or shell holder is it is not touching ATM so no point taking more off something is stopping the press pushing the last bit of the case in. I'm a pretty strong guy and I have put enough force where it feels like either the handle is going to snap or the press is going to rip out of the bench it shouldn't be that hard something is wrong. I will email redding as well see what they say. I don't personally know any reloaders hence asking here all my shooting mates are hunters who use factory ammo prolly a smarter choice!!!!

Will the cases that DO chamber (your 1.412" length cases -your measurement) get closer to the die touching the s/h?

 

[hogpatrol]

Here's a new twist. Scrap that brass and start over.

 

[LHSmith]

Here's a new twist. Scrap that brass and start over.

Good point. If the were NS several times and never FLS, they work harden to the point they become much more difficult to size........the result being NS is not always the best for brass life.

 

[hogpatrol]

This post from BRcentral may cause one to say bingo! Ditch the body die and go with a standard FULL LENGTH resizing die.

"For some cartridges, the body die will squeeze the body enough to cause the shoulder to squish forward a little making it difficult to chamber the cartridge. Then you'll need a bump die too. It sometimes takes a real balancing act to get the three dies working together. Maybe we need a study and some tests to determine the best way?"

Link to thread:

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?83077-Redding-Body-Die-Question

 

[spife7980]

The redding body die does hit the shoulders if screwed in far enough just like a full size, the body die just has a bored out neck.

Taken from the Redding site:

"Question: I have my Full Length Resizing Die/Body Die adjusted so that it is touching the Shellholder and I cannot push my shoulder back. Is there something wrong with my Sizing Die?



Answer: Probably not. In most instances, using Cam-Over will allow the reloader to push the shoulder back sufficiently.

To set a Full Length/Body Die up to Cam-Over:

1) Install the appropriate Shellholder into the Ram of your Press.

2) Raise the Ram so that it is in its uppermost position.

3) Screw the Full Length Resizing Die/Body Die down into the press until it firmly contacts the Shellholder.

4) Back the Ram away from the Die.

5) Screw the Die down FURTHER into your press an additional 1/8th to ¼ turn.

Note that you will feel the Ram/Shellholder contact the resizing Die before the stroke is completed. Completing the Ram Stroke will feel as though you are snapping the latch on a toolbox.

These directions apply only to standard Single Stage Presses. If your single stage press was not manufactured by Redding Reloading Equipment, please contact the manufacturer to see if using Cam-Over is appropriate for your particular Reloading Press."

 

[Stralyanshooter]

Pigdog I haven't used one of the Lee presses but heard they don't cam over due to a stop that limits the presses travel. Also heard of a bloke that filed that stop away so that there was more travel and that press could cam over. He was using Lee collet neck die but the same fix might work for you.

 

[Pigdog]

Ok some answers to the questions. The 1.412 cases haven't been sized they measured that after being fired and chamber fine. I measured all 50 cases and wanted to see which ones wouldn't chamber. None have been sized by the body die. I tested cases that measure 1.414 and they won't chamber it seemed the cut off for those that will chamber is 1.412 so u have a bunch around 1.414 that I want to bump back so they chamber.

I'm thinking this lee press must be the biggest POS. it's brand new and i know lee gear is not the Best But i woulda thought not generating enough force would be more relevant to a 50bmg case not a little 6.5x47 case but maybe it is just a POS I'm ready to burn the lot and go back to factory rifles and factory ammo like all the other hunters around here

 

[Pigdog]

Yes they are being lubed with the white lee lube that comes in a toothpaste like tube. Give me 30mins I will see if a case measuring 1.412 goes closer to the shell holder and die touching then one measuring 1.414.

 

[hrlincoln]

....I have take around 20thou of thickness off the part where it says parallel....

So my confusion is that with a case the shell holder and die won't touch so it seems it doesn't matter how much shorter the die or shell holder is it is not touching ATM so no point taking more off something is stopping the press pushing the last bit of the case in. I'm a pretty strong guy and I have put enough force where it feels like either the handle is going to snap or the press is going to rip out of the bench it shouldn't be that hard something is wrong.

So I have to ask...after you sanded .020 off the top of the shell holder, did you raise the ram with shell holder in place, and re-adjust your sizing die down. Reason I ask, if I read your post #50 correctly, it sounds like when you're at the top of the stroke, there is still a gap between the top of the shell holder and the bottom of the die.

As an afterthought, since you took off .020, you might try seating one of the cases that measures 1.414 in your shell holder; adjust the sizing die up a little to get it out of the way (don't want to accidently de-form a case); then raise the ram with the case fully upwards; then adjust the die downwards until it contacts the case; lower ram slightly and gradually continue to adjust die downwards checking for desired shoulder bump.