Details on AR Tactical in NRA High Power (Midrange)

[Bamban]

500/600

Impressive

 

[jelenko]

every 20 round group I have a single flyer to decides to not go where it's supposed

Yeah! How do they decide? Do they draw straws?

 

[LVLAaron]

Yeah! How do they decide? Do they draw straws?

They must!! It's never 2, it's never zero. It's always one!

 

[XTR]

Sooo....Where are all these 600-60x's that I keep hearing about in Tactical AR?

John Lynds HM ART 199.13 200.18 199.13 598.44 200.13 199.12 199.12 598.37 1196.81 Agg Winner
Dave Blouin HM ART 200.16 198.11 199.10 597.37 200.08 199.10 199.08 598.26 1195.63 1st ART
Rocky Prout HM ART 199.12 200.09 198.05 597.26 199.14 200.14 197.09 596.37 1193.63 3rd ART 1st HM


John Lynds Shot a 200-20x in the State Championships a month or so ago. I think his agg for that weekend was a 1198 forget the X count.

 

[jelenko]

Great shooting, but not 600-60X's.

 

[Nature Boy]

I have a question on loading. I assume not from the magazine and no sled or single shot follower.

So, it's single load with a pinky finger, then release the bolt carrier?

 

[memilanuk]

I use my index finger - my pinky isn't that talented

Actually, for me it's more a matter of ergonomics - just feels un-natural trying to turn my wrist to chase the round in with my little finger. My handss aren't that small... but I don't have sausage fingers either.

 

[Nature Boy]

I'll have to experiment some to see what works best. My question was also to understand what limits there may be on chambering. Since mag length won't be an issue, I assume I could have a barrel chambered for 90g VLDs.

I have a Leupold 4.5-14x50 that would be perfect for this.

 

[Jdne5b]

I'll have to experiment some to see what works best. My question was also to understand what limits there may be on chambering. Since mag length won't be an issue, I assume I could have a barrel chambered for 90g VLDs.

I have a Leupold 4.5-14x50 that would be perfect for this.

I thought the rounds had to fit mag length but you just couldn't use a mag to feed ?

 

[XTR]

Great shooting, but not 600-60X's.

That's true. His scores in the state match a month earlier were:
200-12, 198-12, 200-8 200-16, 200-16, 200-20 for a 600-52 on the last day and an 1198-84 total.

Hey, I don't shoot the class, if those scores are what the compeditors are happy with leave it alone, it is however only the infancy of the class. It won't be that long.

What is going to be frustrating for those who compete in other classes is to watch the "High score in the Match" awards and prizes go to the ARTac class every regional and State match that they give them away. (and hey, I shoot F-TR, I've been watching those go to F-Open and sling shooters for as long as I've been competing)

 

[hpshooter]

That is why you don’t wear shorts when there may be service rifles on the line.

Also why some service rifle shooters wear hoodies in the middle of the summer!

 

[memilanuk]

I thought the rounds had to fit mag length but you just couldn't use a mag to feed ?

No where in the rules does it explicitly say that, at least not that I can find.

3.3.3(i) 'Ammunition' just refers back to the original 3.17, where (b) 'Any' says 'any safe ammunition'.

3.3.3(k) 'Interpretive Intent' might be construed as meaning 'mag length' ammo, but so far it doesn't sound like people are abiding by that.

If it's like most matches I've been to, the MD is more concerned about safety related issues, than policing the rule book. *Especially* when it's something that is sorta 'fuzzy' to begin with.

 

[jelenko]

That's true. His scores in the state match a month earlier were:
200-12, 198-12, 200-8 200-16, 200-16, 200-20 for a 600-52 on the last day and an 1198-84 total.

Hey, I don't shoot the class, if those scores are what the compeditors are happy with leave it alone, it is however only the infancy of the class. It won't be that long.

What is going to be frustrating for those who compete in other classes is to watch the "High score in the Match" awards and prizes go to the ARTac class every regional and State match that they give them away. (and hey, I shoot F-TR, I've been watching those go to F-Open and sling shooters for as long as I've been competing)

It's the MD who decides which classes can compete for the overall match, yes?
Seems like if AR Tac is competing with F class, AR Tac is at a disadvantage?

 

[XTR]

There has been a lot of discussion in more than one forum about mag length ammo and whether or not the class should be fed from the mags and whether or not the ammo should fit. in 3.3.3 (g) The class rules prohibit sleds and require magazines.

One other concern for many is making the 14lb weight limit with chosen scope. It can apparently be a challenge.

 

[Nature Boy]

I thought the rounds had to fit mag length but you just couldn't use a mag to feed ?

thats why I’m asking the question. I’ve been waiting on the final rules before building an upper and the rules are silent on that limitation. Having said that, I’m hesitant to commit to something that would run afoul of “the intent” after all the drama surrounding carpets in F/TR

 

[XTR]

It's the MD who decides which classes can compete for the overall match, yes?
Seems like if AR Tac is competing with F class, AR Tac is at a disadvantage?

In both of the recent matches I attended where there was an AR Tac class AR Tac took the match overall by a fair margine. In the state match ARTac was +15 points and +32x's ahead of the high F class scores, and in the

In the Regional ARTac was 4 points and 20x's higher than the high F class score. In the state match where the scores in F-Open and ARTac were closer 5 AR Tac shooters had X counts of 81, 63, 63, 71, 64, FOpen winner had 60X.


John Lynds HM ART 199.13 200.18 199.13 598.44 200.13 199.12 199.12 598.37 1196.81 Agg Winner
Dave Blouin HM ART 200.16 198.11 199.10 597.37 200.08 199.10 199.08 598.26 1195.63 1st ART
Rocky Prout HM ART 199.12 200.09 198.05 597.26 199.14 200.14 197.09 596.37 1193.63 3rd ART 1st HM
Tim Smith HM ART 199.13 198.10 200.14 597.37 200.10 198.15 197.09 595.34 1192.71
Ron Laramee HM ART 196.07 200.13 200.12 596.32 194.08 199.13 196.11 589.32 1185.64
Roland St Pierre HM ART 191.02 187.04 184.04 562.10 194.05 192.08 184.01 570.14 1132.24

Dan Carrier HM FO 200.15 200.14 197.10 597.39 198.09 199.05 200.07 597.21 1194.60 1st FO
Bob Davis HM FO 200.15 198.14 198.10 596.39 200.13 197.08 197.10 594.31 1190.70 2nd FO
Gene Carey HM FO 200.12 197.09 198.08 595.29 194.11 200.13 200.10 594.34 1189.63 3rd FO


Not judging one way or another, just putting out the data for matches where there are some shooters who are taking the class seriously. The difference in X count for the Open shooters that weekend was mirage. The X ring on an F class target was bouncing like a basketball.

 

[flintcreek6412]

g. Magazine – Standard 10-, 20-, or 30- round magazines must be used. Reduced capacity magazines and “sleds” are prohibited. Magazine may not be used for support and may not touch the ground during firing or recoil. See Rule 5.2.

No sleds or 5 round mags. Again, another NRA fail in the rules. IMO it should say the round must be magazine fed but it just states the magazine must be used. I interpret it as being used means mag fed, not used as an ornament or paper weight but literally everyone else says they don't need to be mag fed because they want to use their 80s and up and the rules don't say they must be mag fed. Without mag fed being a requirement that right there dooms it for the everyday AR owner because they will get gamed by the long throats shooting heavy BC bullets.

I've competed twice with the ARTAC using 73gr ELDs mag length because my chamber won't take 80s. I shot low 590s and had fun putting in zero effort at load development and loading was a one step size, trim, load. Nothing like the mad scientist f class loading. After shooting 200.20x this was like shooting a pellet gun.

I really enjoy it because its back to the basics. Just walk to the next yardline without 100# of gear and shoot. But there is very little interest and at most 1-2 people shoot it and I don't see it growing which is a shame. I've got one in 6.5 CM that I can't bring myself to compete with because I'm afraid I'll either do worse than my .223 which would be embarrassing or I'll make a mockery of the class and clean everything....But then again, I lost to a guy shooting 80s so maybe I will...LMAO...what do you think LVL Aaron .

 

[jelenko]

In both of the recent matches I attended where there was an AR Tac class AR Tac took the match overall by a fair margine. In the state match ARTac was +15 points and +32x's ahead of the high F class scores, and in the

In the Regional ARTac was 4 points and 20x's higher than the high F class score. In the state match where the scores in F-Open and ARTac were closer 5 AR Tac shooters had X counts of 81, 63, 63, 71, 64, FOpen winner had 60X.

Ah. Looks like everyone isn't treating it just like a 'gateway'.
That said, it doesn't seem right to me that someone shooting on 2 MOA 10 rings can compete for the overall match with those shooting on 1 MOA 10 rings.

 

[flintcreek6412]

Ah. Looks like everyone isn't treating it just like a 'gateway'.
That said, it doesn't seem right to me that someone shooting on 2 MOA 10 rings can compete for the overall match with those shooting on 1 MOA 10 rings.

They can't and don't at our club. They are listed on our results page but AR Tac is the step child....It's NOT sling and it's NOT F-class.

We have F class winners, Sling winners and then the AR Tac winner.

That's why it's under Chapter 23 in the HP rules and not Chapter 22 which governs F class

 

[Jdne5b]

thats why I’m asking the question. I’ve been waiting on the final rules before building an upper and the rules are silent on that limitation. Having said that, I’m hesitant to commit to something that would run afoul of “the intent” after all the drama surrounding carpets in F/TR

Kinda like..

"You can use carpet"

"No, not that carpet"