Deer rifle bullet question

[Kevin1990]

Wanting to build a 308 win for this coming deer season. Id like it to have a 20in barrel. Not a hiking rifle, but I'll be in treestands some
times. But I like to hunt from the ground whenever possible.

I will have the opportunity to take 450-500 yard shots max. I was hunting with a 6.5 grendel last year and a beautiful buck came out at about 400 yards, and I couldnt ethically let one rip from that distance.

Just out of curiosity. At 500 yards for a deer bullet, would you choose fast with low BC, like a 125-150 grain that you can get screaming out of a 20 inch, or somthing slower, but with better BC like in the 168 grain and up?

OR

Would you choose a different caliber all together?

 

[Lone Hunter]

165 Sierra Game King out of the .308 or a 150 gr. Have never used the 150 gr but I would assume it would do the job quite easily. I know the 165 gr kills them pretty quickly. Deer aren’t that hard to put down. Used to shoot them with .300 WM and it tears them up. .308 will do it with a lot less recoil and powder. Hunting with a 6XC now and haven’t seen anything I would like to shoot .

 

[vonb]

150 or 165 grain. Practice at that distance and you'll have your deer.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

https://www.bluecollarreloading.com/collections/sierra/products/sierra-30cal-125gr-spitzer-2120
If your wanting less recoil this is a great bullet. I load it in the 30-06 also.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Has NY went lead free?

 

[Kevin1990]

Has NY went lead free?

I dont believe so. I will double check though.

 

[Dimner]

Wanting to build a 308 win for this coming deer season. Id like it to have a 20in barrel. Not a hiking rifle, but I'll be in treestands some
times. But I like to hunt from the ground whenever possible.

I will have the opportunity to take 450-500 yard shots max. I was hunting with a 6.5 grendel last year and a beautiful buck came out at about 400 yards, and I couldnt ethically let one rip from that distance.

Just out of curiosity. At 500 yards for a deer bullet, would you choose fast with low BC, like a 125-150 grain that you can get screaming out of a 20 inch, or somthing slower, but with better BC like in the 168 grain and up?

OR

Would you choose a different caliber all together?

Personally I wouldn't go with a 20" 308 at 500 or 400 for that matter. But that's just me. So if you are bulding something and 30 cal is your thing....Rather than pushing the 308 to the limit I would go 30-06. I think it will be more forgiving to get a load that works well.

As for bullet choice, heavy is better for sure. Way out there at 500 you want as much energy as possible with the least amount of wind drift. I would look at 165 TGK, the hornady eld-x or take it a step up and go with premium bullets like partitions. You really don't want bullet failure at long distance.

Last piece of advice.... even though you may have a 500 yard shot, it's far more likely that you are going to have a less than 150 yard shot. Make sure your bullet will perform at high velocity and short distance. What I have read about the 30 cal game kings is that 2800-2900 fps is the max you want to be when it impacts a deer. So even though you may be able to push a bullet super fast, it's not always the best idea.

 

[Riesel]

My Caliber choice would be 7-08 with a bullet somewhere around 140 grains

 

[dantiff2]

Hornady ELD-X was designed to do exactly what you are asking from a bullet. It's hard to get a bullet to hold together at 50 yards (max velo), yet still expand at 500 yards or beyond. This one will!

 

[3Sigma]

I use a 20" 308 or 26" 30-06, similar distances and scenarios. I practice at 500 on an 8" steel plate for both.

I suggest 165 SST or 165 GameKings. Both have worked at around 300 yards with one shot kills through lungs and heart on the 308. The ballistics on the 165 SST is better, and my preference today. They also expand better at lower velocity.

My opinion Is to bring as much energy as you can on a bullet made to expand at your impact velocity. Load for precision (a few fps aren’t going to matter)

Once you have confidence in your load and equipment, practice at distance on a cold bore.

 

[Prose]

125. Grain bullets are not suitable for the task that you’re describing.

 

[choprzrul]

151gr Absolute Hammer. You should be able to find a load at 3000 fps https://sites.google.com/view/hbsha...rsZmHnoFtybZAvPdHfbdou2Bm_eZVukfEBcVicU&pli=1

At 500 yards, it still has 1834 fps and 1127 ft lbs.

I have shot Hammers 4 times at deer and all 4 were one shot kills. 1 was a bang flop (25-06) and the other 3 ran in a circle for a few seconds and went down.....2 with 25-06 and 1 with 6.5 Creedmoor. I find the circle death run rather odd, but it happened with 2 different calibers in 2 different states, so it might be a thing??

.

 

[Gary in MD]

A 308 is a nice deer cartridge but you are limiting your velocity by going with a short 20" barrel.
(I know...guys kill deer at 1000 yards all the time with an 18" barreled rifle lol)
Do some research and figure out approximately what velocity you'll get out of your chosen set up and then look at a chart to see what yardage your bullet is getting down below 2000 fps. If your bullet won't expand at your intended yardage than you need to do some adjusting with cartridge selection, barrel length, bullet choice or all the above. You don't want to hit one and wound the freaking thing because the bullet didn't expand. It doesn't take much to kill a deer, I like the Nosler ballistic tips, Berger HVLDs, and Sierra soft points.
Just one deer hunter's opinion, ymmv

 

[K22]

500 yards. Can you hit a paper plate consistently at 500 yards in a field shooting position? If you can, you are well above the average deer hunter.

I hunted deer for close 50 years but never shot one over 185 yards basically due to the terrain limitations here in the east. Regardless, I would never have attempted a shot over 300 yards due to my limitations of marksmanship in the field. But that just me. I realize that there are hunters capable of these long-range shots, I would just make sure you are in that club - I am not.

The standard rule of thumb is a minimum of 1,000 ft/lbs. of energy remaining at the point of impact on a deer for a humane kill. So, I would select a caliber, bullet, load, etc. capable of delivering that approximate energy level at the maximum distance you intend to take a shot.

The new bonded bullets have successful track record. My best friend took a 5x4 Bull Elk last November with a 308 using a 165 grain Nosler Accubond bullet but the distance was about 175 yards. It was a one shot kill.

I used Sierra Pro Hunter bullets in a 308 successfully for many years but as I said, my distances were all under 185 yards.

 

[Dimner]

At 500 yards, it still has 1834 fps and 1127 ft lbs.

There is a third factor missing. You need to have a bullet that will transfer energy to the target at 1834fps. Most will not transfer much energy at that distance. When I say transfer energy, basically we are talking penetration and expansion. I need to find an image of a test someone did long ago that shows expansion of bullets at a bunch of different velocities. It's very eye opening.

So the bottom line is you have to find a bullet that will both penetrate and expand at 500 yards, and do the same at 50 yards. At the velocity you need to reach out to 500, most bullets will explode at 50 yards and just wound the deer. As @dantiff2 mentioned, that's a tough ask for a bullet, but the ELD-X will do it as will some of the premium bullets.


The other pitfall of hunting deer at 500 yards is being able to track and find the deer after the hit. The likelihood of error in shot placement, wind drift, bullet performance, and foliage in the path of flight is high. You will need to practice your shots from a tree stand in the same setting as your hunt. Even then, it's much harder to track, or even find the location of hit at 500 yards. All things to think about and keep in mind. There are a bunch of things to do to minimize this risk, but we are only talking bullets here.


Edit: Here is that image of the expansion test. I have a higher res version somewhere. It will take me longer to find. But note how few bullets made it to 1800fps expansion. The tester stopped testing the bullet when it failed to expand. Most bullets started to do this around 2000fps. Another thing to note is the failures of bullets at the top end velocity.

Reloader's Press | Handloader Magazine

www.handloadermagazine.com

 

[Doug Casner]

At 500 Id try 180s more energy. Doug

 

[Kevin1990]

Thanks for all the comments everyone!

Side note. When im on the ground, im using a tripod for my gun. When in in a treestand, I use a long hook that is used to hold a bow to keep the gun steady. Regardless, I wont take a shot over 200 yards out of a treestand. Id get out of it and open the legs on the bipod. I took a buck last year at 325 yards with the 6.5 grendel.

Lastly, the 150 acre area I hunt is about 80 acres of open feild surrounded by woods that are maybe an acre deep. Then it connects to other fields. Hard to explain buy 300+ yard shots present themselves frequently. Deer come into thisfm field from all the other surrounding fields.

 

[CJ6]

I'm a BIG fan of bonded bullets. Swift, Nosler, Hornady etc. They hold up at close range and expand at longer range.

 

[Jesswil61]

Just to be the odd one out, if you have a preference for 30 caliber do not rule out a WSM. I have and use both a 308 and 300 WSM and in my experience the recoil is not that much different and the WSM would perform lights out in your configuration. My WSM is a 22" barrel and it will smoke 150-165 gr bullets with no problem

 

[choprzrul]

There is a third factor missing. You need to have a bullet that will transfer energy to the target at 1834fps. Most will not transfer much energy at that distance. When I say transfer energy, basically we are talking penetration and expansion. I need to find an image of a test someone did long ago that shows expansion of bullets at a bunch of different velocities. It's very eye opening.

So the bottom line is you have to find a bullet that will both penetrate and expand at 500 yards, and do the same at 50 yards. At the velocity you need to reach out to 500, most bullets will explode at 50 yards and just wound the deer. As @dantiff2 mentioned, that's a tough ask for a bullet, but the ELD-X will do it as will some of the premium bullets.


The other pitfall of hunting deer at 500 yards is being able to track and find the deer after the hit. The likelihood of error in shot placement, wind drift, bullet performance, and foliage in the path of flight is high. You will need to practice your shots from a tree stand in the same setting as your hunt. Even then, it's much harder to track, or even find the location of hit at 500 yards. All things to think about and keep in mind. There are a bunch of things to do to minimize this risk, but we are only talking bullets here.


Edit: Here is that image of the expansion test. I have a higher res version somewhere. It will take me longer to find. But note how few bullets made it to 1800fps expansion. The tester stopped testing the bullet when it failed to expand. Most bullets started to do this around 2000fps. Another thing to note is the failures of bullets at the top end velocity.

Reloader's Press | Handloader Magazine

www.handloadermagazine.com

View attachment 1449141

Hammer bullets' specification for minimum velocity while retaining complete terminal effectiveness is 1800 fps. On deer sized game with 3000fps muzzle velocity for the 151 AH, I would expect a pass through with full expansion at 500 yards.

Personally, I'd rather be using my 25-06 with the 90gr Absolute Hammer leaving the muzzle at 3611 fps for a 500 yard shot....it still has 2256 fps at that distance. But like you said, shot placement is probably the most important factor.

.