Cleaning with brush - forward only?

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Speaking of bronze brushes, and concentric contact at the crown, one little trick that I try to remember to do is to straighten new brushes after they are installed on the rod. I turn the rod and bend the brush as needed so that it has as little wobble as possible. Sometimes, when I remember to, I turn the rod a quarter turn or so each time that it clears the muzzle.

On the subject of some of the excellent high magnification pictures of crowns that have been posted in the past, it seemed to me that the patterns may have extended beyond the reach of a brush in some cases.

Another little tip relating to bronze brushes is that they are ground off at the tips of their bristles as they are used. This may be readily seen by new and used brushes. The reason that I mention this is that I have come across more than one fellow who could not figure out why he got more color on his patch after brushing. Of course the answer is that it came from what I call brush dust in the bore. This is why I always follow brushing with at least two wet patches, before giving the solvent time to react with whatever may actually be left in the bore by bullet jackets. Otherwise I would get a false reading.

Hi Boyd! I agree about the false reading..for sure.
But IMHO, all this talk about brushes and crown damage, is a solution looking for a problem. In the pic above you can clearly see that the crown is somewhat dulled...but not by the brush. Rather, heat is what smoothly and uniformly did most of it, or the leading edge would be "scratched" dull..not smooth.
Of course as I said, if it makes one feel better, do it. It's certainly not going to hurt anything by removing the brush at the end of the stroke. More importantly, the throat is worn smooth the same way..by heat, but much faster. That's what breaking in a barrel is all about. The extreme heat smoothes the throat, and to some degree, the whole bore, when fired. Built up carbon/copper shields the bore from the heat and it doesn't smooth up evenly unless we remove the build up after each shot until fouling stops..or very near it. That, IMO, is what barrel break in is all about. The second pic is of very small burs left after crowning, but the same same happens when chambered...and even when the barrel is rifled. If we had a throat that is all smoothed up only half way around..and burs left on the other half, it would look like a combination of the two pics...but of the throat. The erosion of the metal slows down greatly once the surfaces are smooth. I like to use the analogy of running a torch flame over the end of a piece of metal right after cutting it off with a band or hacksaw. The sharp burs will almost instantly glow cherry red and burn away. But when the burs are gone and the edge is smoothe, the flame will ride over the edge and not burn away metal. Smith and Wesson used this same principle on their big 500 s$w revolvers. The early ones had trouble with flame cutting of the frame in front of the cylinder. All they did to remedy it was to polish the frame and new guns.


Sorry to get of topic to some degree here, but I think it's still relevant. Flame and heat is more of a concern than is a bronze brush.--Mike

 

[rkittine]

Glad that I got to read through all this before my three new rifles come as my cleaning station currently has Hoppe's No. 9, Rem Oil, Aluminum Rods, Bronze Brushes and Bore Snakes. Probably still fine for my shotguns, but yesterday I ordered about $500.00 worth of Mike Lucas, Bore Guides and Rod Bushings, Dewey Rods, Nylon and Bronze brushes, regular and tubular jags, patches and an assortment of solvents, greases and oil. Now to learn how to effectively use all this stuff. First stop, Tony Boyer's section on cleaning. What did I do before the internet? Yep, old enough to remember those days.

Thanks Guys, Bob

 

[BoydAllen]

Just to be clear, I have never felt the need to remove bronze brushes at the muzzle. The only concession that I make to the issue of brushing is to short stroke, several times with solvent soaked patches before I brush, and I can't prove that this makes a bit of difference. I agree completely with your assessment of the situation.

 

[Joe Salt]

Don't know if this will help, but I usually use a nylon brush. But when I brush back and forth and I feel the throat is a little rough it's time for the bronze brush!

Joe Salt

 

[1shot]

For what it is worth, (nothing of dollars a cents anyhow) I try to get a couple of patches on a jag as soon as firing is complete, while the bbl. is still warm. (Butches Bore Shine). When i start to clean I start with a wet patch of Butches. I just shove it slowly down the bore and let them fall into a box. I continue to do so until two patches in a row come out white. I just put a cardboard box on the floor and empty it when it gets full of patches. About every 250-300 rounds I take a cotton patch and work a dab of J-B into the patch, roll it around a one caliber smaller bronze brush and slowly work the brush back and forth advancing about for the first 4"-5", then in one one continuous stroke push it out of the muzzle. Only a couple of times have I found a tight spot, or a section of more resistance. If I do, out comes the bore scope. If I see something I don't like, I will first try BBS on a nylon brush and get to it in short strokes in the offending area. If nothing irregular is shown, I take a long length pistol brush with a bronze brush soaked in Butches and turn,and push back and forth to make sure I've dealt with the corbon ring. A couple wet patches with brake Kleen, the normal cleaning on the bolt body, lube in the appropriate spots and it's good to go. I've been doing this for well over 40 years and in my humble opinion it isn't broke, so I'm not about to try and fix it. Now while proof reading this, it took me longer to write it than do it. Of course I type at the speed of an arthritic goat so take that into consideration.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

 

[savagedasher]

Plus, you pull that brush back through, what's the first thing that happens when the bristles clear the bore? They fling all that crud you are trying to remove right into the chamber, lug, and bolt raceway.
[/quote t
That's what's a bore guide is for. Larry

 

[Uthink Uknow]

If you read the Greg Walley thread you should have also noticed some of the remarks. I remember them from when they were originally posted. The brush marks were well beyond what a proper brush would have reached.
Any way, I brush both directions. If the jag and the brush fit the rod they won't snag the muzzle. Seems to me that screwing and unscrewing the brush does as much damage as a brush being pulled back.

 

[gunner69]

Love the magnification pics. Your jag dragging over and over the crown is also changing the crown at the bottom edge. This can be prevented with a Crown Cradle. See the site below.

http://crowncradle.bigcartel.com/

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Love the magnification pics. Your jag dragging over and over the crown is also changing the crown at the bottom edge. This can be prevented with a Crown Cradle. See the site below.

http://crowncradle.bigcartel.com/

Man where did this thread come from

 

[Iowa Fox]

When in doubt try nylon brushes. Custom barrels generally don't foul much and so do not need a ton of cleaning.
For myself, ten to twenty passes with Sweets on a nylon brush basically cleans the barrel to bare metal after 300-400 rounds of Long Range shooting. Nylon brushes can change direction while still in the bore so they do not need to exit the muzzle. I feel that as long as the movement is in-line with the bullet travel one is not embedding anything worse than hot copper at 50,000 psi screaming through the bore while being chased by burning powder at God knows what temperature. I just don't clean that often so the crown is not exposed to as much brush time. I realize that the bench crowd cleans much more often. I am not at all sure it is necessary with barrels that do not foul much to begin with...

Yep. My thoughts exactly.

 

[savagedasher]

? Would the picture not look like a rolled machining edge that was blow from the muzzle pressure.
The top and bottom lip would be rounded in. If a brush done it? Not tore away like the picture show.
I have seen that often in racing when a part brakes. Larry

 

[Mozella]

Man where did this thread come from

I don't know, but it scares me, so here's what I've done to protect my barrel.

I've had some special brushes made from Platinum along with 5000 special silk patches. I've had my jags reproduced in 18 carat gold and I've had my carbon fiber cleaning rod covered in baby Koala intestine so as not to damage the bore in case it flexes a little bit.

I got a 1 pound jar of rendered Manatee fat to use as a patch lubricant/cleaning product which I mix 50/50 with carbon tetrachloride . That was the hardest part and the most expensive since someone thinks Manatees should be protected and carbon tetrachloride is banned by the EPA, and we all know how much ammo the EPA has on hand these days. But it was worth it, at least I think it was.

I feel much better now except for those ugly sores on my hands which won't heal.

As a bonus, I got some great Manatee steaks as part of the deal. Some people say they taste like chicken but I say they taste more like porpoise.

 

[savagedasher]

Man where did this thread come from

I don't know, but it scares me, so here's what I've done to protect my barrel.

I've had some special brushes made from Platinum along with 5000 special silk patches. I've had my jags reproduced in 18 carat gold and I've had my carbon fiber cleaning rod covered in baby Koala intestine so as not to damage the bore in case it flexes a little bit.

I got a 1 pound jar of rendered Manatee fat to use as a patch lubricant/cleaning product which I mix 50/50 with carbon tetrachloride . That was the hardest part and the most expensive since someone thinks Manatees should be protected and carbon tetrachloride is banned by the EPA, and we all know how much ammo the EPA has on hand these days. But it was worth it, at least I think it was.

I feel much better now except for those ugly sores on my hands which won't heal.

As a bonus, I got some great Manatee steaks as part of the deal. Some people say they taste like chicken but I say they taste more like porpoise.

I know all about Manatees they are very common here. They taste more like Turtle. ;D
I never have cleaned them with a brush. ;D You know the are vegetarian's so is gopher turtles ;D
Never used a brush on them also. ;D ;D Larry

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Every once in a while an oooold cleaning thread comes up and the crown cradle gets mentioned?

 

[dickn52]

MY OPINION....why take a chance to just be stubborn? Protect the crown and the chamber. Use a bore guide, do NOT pull anything back through the barrel. Why take any chances at all? Like anything worth doing well, take your time as their is no trophy for being fast.

 

[savagedasher]

I worry far more when cleaning the bore with the cleaning rod flexing and rubbing the bore. then I do about a brass brush finding the center when being pulled backward in the crown. Same with cleaning with a patch. Pulling a cleaning rod should take the flex out of a rod. ;D Larry

 

[dmoran]

Besides the obvious misalignment of what is actually happening when a brush is pushed through, drops down, and then dragged back across the crown, I have seen the physical damage resultant to a few over the years.

John Krieger, owner of Krieger Barrel, gives advise and reasons to the brushing of a crown in this video interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-5kPxE4gSY
About 7:20-minutes into the video is his advise on brushing.

Donovan

 

[BoydAllen]

I suppose that almost anything can be done badly. The best shooters that I know, some world record holders, run their brushes in both directions. I suppose that I should add that I take more than ordinary caution when using cleaning rods, use very good guides, and coated rods, that I wipe off frequently. As to Mr. Krieger's instructions, if I were in his business, I might give equally cautious instructions, but alas, I am not.

 

[savagedasher]

I suppose that almost anything can be done badly. The best shooters that I know, some world record holders, run their brushes in both directions. I suppose that I should add that I take more than ordinary caution when using cleaning rods, use very good guides, and coated rods, that I wipe off frequently. As to Mr. Krieger's instructions, if I were in his business, I might give equally cautious instructions, but alas, I am not.

What are the rods coated with? Larry

 

[AckleymanII]

Lot of guys shooting 22/250 AI's, 243's, 6 Rem AI, 7 Mags, 300 WM will read this and I wonder how they are going to get the powder fouling out of their barrels when they clean their rifles once a year with a 50 or more rounds down the tube?

41g of Varget in a 22/250 AI can be difficult to get out.