Cleaning with brush - forward only?
- Thread starter ScottMcc
- Start date
Just a wondering thought, but has anyone have experience with the Iosso Heavy Nylon brushes? How do they compare to the Montana Extreme brush?
FroggyOne2 said:
Yes, I have used them in the past when using the Iosso paste. Very stiff in the bore as you would expect but not too stiff to prevent pull back towards the breech. Can't compare with the Montana Extreme brush as I have not used one but it's certainly stronger than typical nylon bore brush. Works really well scrubbing the barrel - first 2-3 patches come out black.
The gunsmith who does my work recommends a few passes from breech to muzzles (and not back again) with a dry bronze brush after shooting to cut the powder glaze or the carbon ring just in front of the chamber. Then proceed with usual clean, get the carbon out before going for the copper. This is for stainless steel match grade barrels.
Just changed my cleaning regime, trying Froglube, so far all good but yet to do a borescope check.
Martin
I am no expert but been shooting better than 40 years now, started using surplus cleaning rods when I was a kid back in the early 70's, still have them actually, my dad taught me the Army way to clean guns, served me well through basic and 8 years active. Flash forward 30 + years and 4 kids of my own, teach them the Army way of cleaning guns as young children knowing the three boys would be in the Army some day. Flash forward to 2005 my oldest graduates jump school getting ready to head to Iraq with the 82nd, comes home for pre-deployment visit and brings me this OTIS cleaning kit, then tells me this is what they use now a days. It took me a while to figure it out (thinking what the hell is wrong with the Army getting rid of steel rods). I started using it on new barrels at the range just because it seems safer pulling it through the barrel then ramming a rod down the tube while the line was still hot (its not, but seems that way). I found myself using it more and more, now I use OTIS exclusively. I run a patch through the bore with solvent about 10 times, pull the bronze brush through a couple times every 4th or 5th session, then I run another patch to clean the gunk, then I run good ole CLP on a patch then anther clean one to remove any excess CLP. I also use only the army issue patches (pre otis)as they are more absorbent and very porous and seem top collect junk in the barrel better, I use the otis patch for the final swipe as they are more flannel soft. I am paranoid about ruining/degrading a barrel, in my mind it never hurts to remove all doubt that the poor shooting is because my shooting skills suck and not the equipment.
Martin in Aus. said:
Wow lots of input here! I brush back and forth with nylon brushes. I use Dewy coated rods, bore guides, Montana Xtreme bore solvent, Montana Xtreme copper killer and Eezox gun oil.
This is my cleaning process... 2 soaked patches of bore solvent and let stand for 20 min then 10 passes with a soaked nylon brush then 2 dry patches. I do same process with copper killer. After cleaning I run one patch with alittle bit of Eezox gun oil.
One thing I make sure I DONT do is let the brush come all the way out the muzzle. I only let it come out halfway so the rod isnt bouncing and rubbing on the crown. Im sure the coated rod wont hurt the crown, but if one is using a rod that isnt coated it possible could? Im not sure if thats true, but thats just how I do it :-\
Everybody has their own way and thats my way. I dont have a clue if this is the best way or the worst way. All I know is that it works good for me and all my rifle shoot great. Hope this help out guys
This is my cleaning process... 2 soaked patches of bore solvent and let stand for 20 min then 10 passes with a soaked nylon brush then 2 dry patches. I do same process with copper killer. After cleaning I run one patch with alittle bit of Eezox gun oil.
One thing I make sure I DONT do is let the brush come all the way out the muzzle. I only let it come out halfway so the rod isnt bouncing and rubbing on the crown. Im sure the coated rod wont hurt the crown, but if one is using a rod that isnt coated it possible could? Im not sure if thats true, but thats just how I do it :-\
Everybody has their own way and thats my way. I dont have a clue if this is the best way or the worst way. All I know is that it works good for me and all my rifle shoot great. Hope this help out guys
I have looked at two used crown cross-sections on a microscope. It appears that the sharpest lath tool will drag a small amount of metal across the bore opening edge. You can see the smeared metal even away from the edge so it's not brush damage. If you cross-section a lathe turned rod you can see the distorted metal on a microscope at 500X. I believe it was only about 1 ten thou. or less. The heavier the cut rate the deeper the distortion. Years ago I did evaluations for the machinability group at the Republic Steel Research Center. It may look like a clean cut but the metal is always smeared even if it's only 1 ten thou. I never tried it but I like Varmint Al's method of cleaning up the crown with a ball abrasive stone. This may be a bigger issue than bore brushes. It's on his website. I retired recently and don't have any of my work toys available. Sometimes it looks like many of the methods people tell you about make sense in an unproven way.
Forum Boss said:
If not drawing the brush back thru the barrel were critical to you, why wouldn't you just remove the threads from the brush (lots of choices how), push it on the rod and the push thru the barrel? It drops off and you continue with your routine.
It's not the total amount of seconds involved rather, I think how you spend them.
After reading this thread the only conclusion I come to, there is no rifling left in the bore.
I have read where shooters have recommended never pull the brush back thru. Others will say use a NEW brush each time you clean??
I can somewhat imagine the twisted wire 'core' of the brush perhaps scratching the crown but that is very difficult with a good fitting rod, ie dont use a 22 rod in a 30 cal.
I can somewhat imagine the twisted wire 'core' of the brush perhaps scratching the crown but that is very difficult with a good fitting rod, ie dont use a 22 rod in a 30 cal.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I have worn out more than one barrel in my life, and I have ready access to a bore scope. I have not seen the brush wear that others discuss as if it were fact, and I have always used bronze brushes. As far as rod wear goes, I been careful with how I use my coated rods, and wipe them every time that they are removed from the bore, and I see no evidence of rod induced wear.....none. I do think that crowns benefit from occasional refreshing, because the the temperature of combustion byproducts and the abrasiveness of unburned powder that is concentrated and intensified just as bullets are clearing the crown. The barrels that I have worn out were in that condition because of wear and excessive cracking of the surface in the throat area , and IMO would have suffered that fate regardless of what cleaning method was used. Clean in the manner that pleases you, but if you repeat a "truth" that you have not actually experienced, perhaps that should be mentioned. This is not to say that I discount barrels being damaged by sloppy cleaning technique. I have seen the results; It is just that I disagree with all of the brouhaha about bronze brushes based on my extensive experience using them to clean barrels, and what I have see with bore scopes. As I have written before, barrel manufacturers' instructions are more conservative than they need to be, in order to limit their liability, and in consideration of the fact that a good number of their barrels will fall into the hands of shooters who don't own or know how to use proper cleaning equipment. If you don't want to wear out your barrels, it is a simple matter, just keep them in your safe. Personally, if I am not wearing one out every so often, I know that I am not shooting nearly enough.
If anyone has ever seen a crown damaged by a brush please send a photo. All this don't pull the brush back into the bore sounds like non-sense. People pick up on something and just keep repeating it without any evidence that it's harmful. Tony Boyer brushes both directions and he shoots groups under .200". He has 5 times as many hall of fame points as the next closest competitor. It would be shocked if I saw any competitor at the Super Shoot removing the brush after the forward stroke. If I wear out my barrel I will buy a new one and move up to 6BRX.
I realize this is an older post but some people including myself search older posts for answers.
I never really understood why you would use a bore guide on the chamber end but not on the muzzle crown end. A jag and rod will drag and strike the muzzle crown area hundreds if not thousands of times cleaning during the life of a barrel. I created a simple bore guide for the muzzle crown end and it works really well. We have numerous sizes. There are some good videos on the site too which demonstrate the issue and how the Crown Cradle works. Hope this helps and maybe is seen as a solution or least as extra insurance/precaution for the precision marksman.
http://crowncradle.bigcartel.com/
I never really understood why you would use a bore guide on the chamber end but not on the muzzle crown end. A jag and rod will drag and strike the muzzle crown area hundreds if not thousands of times cleaning during the life of a barrel. I created a simple bore guide for the muzzle crown end and it works really well. We have numerous sizes. There are some good videos on the site too which demonstrate the issue and how the Crown Cradle works. Hope this helps and maybe is seen as a solution or least as extra insurance/precaution for the precision marksman.
http://crowncradle.bigcartel.com/
Attachments
The reason for a bore guide is to guide brushes solvents patches in the bore. With out a bore guide you can have solvents running in the trigger along with any material that could come off the patches. The o ring on the bore guide stops that.
As far a brushing in and pulling back. I feel it is the only way to clean. If you only brush one way any Build up of copper or powder the brush only skips over it.
When you brush your teeth do you only brush one way? Larry
As far a brushing in and pulling back. I feel it is the only way to clean. If you only brush one way any Build up of copper or powder the brush only skips over it.
When you brush your teeth do you only brush one way? Larry
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I am going to disagree, as politely as I can, with the proposition that the sole function of a bore (or cleaning rod) guide is to keep solvent out of the action. The only guides that I think are worth using for an accurate rifle that sees a lot of use (and cleaning) have some sort of bushing, or sleeve that goes on the rod, that is designed to perfect the fit of the rod in the guide. These stay on the rod(s) and are plugged into the back of the guide at the point where the brush or jag and patch have entered the chamber. This feature goes a long way toward keeping the rod from rubbing the chamber throat. Lucas, and TK Nolan make excellent guides as well as Neil Jones, who has added the feature as an option to his. For those who may be unfamiliar with the Nolan guide, here is a link to an article. http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/nollan-barrel-saver-rod-guide/
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