The ONLY downside to a tuner is the added weight. Otherwise, they are another tool at our disposal that I'm extremely satisfied....works. I agree with the claims that they make tune windows wider, and I agree that moving them can make differences on target. They are much simpler to use than to explain, but my results tell me that they do exactly what is claimed...consistently and repeatably. What more can we ask? The one thing that a tuner will not do is to make a bad barrel/load, good. They will however keep a good barrel/load good longer and can be adjusted to keep it there...at the bench. If you think about it, tunig a gun is what really separates the men from the boys in BR. Tuners HELP level the playing field. I have no plans of shooting BR without one again. I first started using one in 2007 or 2008. I have never seen a down side except weight. I also feel that we are very near to a new tuner that will be even better at what they do. 8)---Mike Ezell
Centerfire Barrel Tuners/ Muzzle Devices
- Thread starter Tim Singleton
- Start date
johara1 said:
I think so... :-\ They do the same on a really good barrel as they do on an average one. They will NOT make a barrel better than the same barrel without a tuner, properly tuned, though. At least not the ones that I have used so far.
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
Gunsandgunsmithing, my tuner does not add weight is installed on a 1.250" barrel.
That's certainly a nice attribute, Eric. They look nice too!--MikeErik Cortina said:
Back in the late 90's Jackie Schmidt was kind enough to give me one of his tuners. That was before the rubber and brass part was added. At about the same time, I suggested to Sims Vibration Lab. that they make a Deresonator with a bigger hole for larger barrels, and they sent me a couple of early production samples. I decided to do the experiment on a barrel that I had been given by a manufacturer, and was vary familiar with, since I had basically left it on till it was very close to being at the end of its useful life. Since the rifle was already right at 10.5#, and I did not want to take any balance weight out of the butt, I decided on using a stepped contour to lighten the barrel by the same amount as the tuner and Deresonator would add, about 5 1/4 oz. Since the tuner threaded on the barrel with a 15/16 fine pitch thread, we just continued that diameter back until the resultant step was about .050 (.100 difference in diameter), then we cut another cylinder at that diameter until the step up to the original contour was the same as the first one. Before the next match, I was able to spend a good day at the range, testing various combinations of barrel, tuner, and Deresonator. What seemed to work the best was having the deresonator at the back of the tuner threads, which put it about 2" back of the muzzle, with the tuner turned out about two turns from all the way on. I should add that the barrel was so alligatored in the throat that you could feel it with a patch, and I had to resort to unusual cleaning techniques to get around the problem. Anyway, that barrel, which had never been better than mid pack, shot closer to the wind, and required less load adjustment than before. The first group of its last agg. was a .261 at 200, and the last of the day won that match with a .291. I know that there was more than just the addition of a tuner going on there, but nevertheless, based on that one experience, I am of the opinion that a properly done tuner may have more to offer an average barrel than an exceptional one, and you may note that several tuners used by successful shooters have rubber damping elements.
This is why i am going to do a test to see the difference, I have a about a 8 in a hummer barrel and it shoots through the wind like it's not there. and it has a Harrells brake on it. I'm going to thread the brake on the rear and make a sleeve and bore it and thread it to fit over the rear of the brake and add a set screw. Now i can compare the barrel with and with out to see if there is any improvement. If a Dasher can shoot in the zero's without one what can it do with one? Maybe you can't improve on it, or maybe it is to get a load to work in a barrel it doesn't want. We will see……… jim
Installation??
I have allways heard that cutting muzzle threads in a finished barrel changes groups usually for the worst. Because weight is removed??
Is it safe to thread my existing barrel for a tuner? It shoots very well now and even better with a collar added, but I want ease of tunability. With the collar I am in the 3's for my last several 5 shot groups at 100. Could it be better?? Possibly, but I would cry if I made it worse!
I have allways heard that cutting muzzle threads in a finished barrel changes groups usually for the worst. Because weight is removed??
Is it safe to thread my existing barrel for a tuner? It shoots very well now and even better with a collar added, but I want ease of tunability. With the collar I am in the 3's for my last several 5 shot groups at 100. Could it be better?? Possibly, but I would cry if I made it worse!
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
broncman said:
It will not make it worse. I don't know where you heard that, but is is not true.
I have a barrel that shot real good, so I put a tuner on it. The first match I shot with it using a tuner I shot my first 1,000 yard 20 shot clean. So they work.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
I think I read that in something Bill Calfee wrote. He said turning the outside of the barrel caused the bore to open up. Anyone ever verify this?
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
Doesn't matter, if you remove metal from the od of the barrel the id increases. I have read it and my gunsmith also recommends the largest od thread you can get on a barrel because of this. Most of my barrels are threaded too. I will try and find the article.
[br]Cigarcop said:
Keith, [br]
This barrel started copper fouling badly and got worse each day. Through the 800 and 900 stages, it shot well. As long as the bore wasn't coppered, it shot. So, the tuner kept working. As far as prolonging barrel life, I don't think so.
zfastmalibu said:
I have allways heard on stress relieved cut rifling, their would be less of an effect, but on non stress relieved button barrels or hammer forged that any metal removal allowed the stress to move the bore in some way??
Just curious as to others experience on threading a finished barrel at the muzzle....
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
broncman said:
Many BR shooters use muzzle breaks on their rifles. To attach breaks, they must thread the end of the barrel and I don't see them losing accuracy because of it.
…… jimI think that if the diameter of the threads is large enough and the stress relief before contouring properly done, that there is no bad effect on the target from turning threads at the muzzle of a button rifled barrel.
The reason that I say this is not some magazine article, but actual experience, and that of others. Before we installed the tuner that Jackie gave me, Don Nielson had tried an experiment at a match that I was at that involved threading the muzzle of what I believe was a Hart barrel. The experiment was a failure, and he removed the device, and finished the match with the threaded barrel, shooting groups that were consistent with what one would have expected from an unthreaded barrel. I don't know the size of those threads, but they may have been under .900.
Since the button rifled barrel that I used for my tuner experiment would get 15/16 fine threads, I figured that I would be OK. As it turned out, I was. Not to disrespect Mr. Calfee, but rimfire and center fire bullets are different animals, so what may be important to one, may not be for the other. Also, the Buckys, Beggs, and Stewart tuners all involve threading the barrel, and they have all been used to win matches. Lou Murdica has done a lot of work with the Stuart tuner, and I do not think that he would have kept threading those barrels if there had been a decrease in accuracy.
On a side note, back in the late 90's, I acted as a go between, between Lynwood Harrell and Lou Murdica, to facilitate testing of Harrel tuners on some of Lou's barrels. After that testing, Lou used one of the tuners on his heavy varmint rifle at the nationals. I asked him if he would have done that it the tuner was not an advantage, and he confirmed my thought that he would not have.
On a personal note, a friend fitted the first tuner that I tried (from Jackie) and stepped the barrel to make weight, and if I had had a lathe of my own, after the weekend that I shot it at the match that I mentioned, I would have cut threads and steps on every barrel that I owned. I still would today. The improvement was that distinct.
I will say one thing about changing barrels by tuning, or whatever. I would expect to have to rework my load.
Since that time I have received a couple of other tuners, and played with them some. This has made me a believer it having some weight at the end of a barrel, as well as some sort of rubber to damp vibrations. The differences are subtle, but they are there. My biggest problem is that none of them read flags.
The reason that I say this is not some magazine article, but actual experience, and that of others. Before we installed the tuner that Jackie gave me, Don Nielson had tried an experiment at a match that I was at that involved threading the muzzle of what I believe was a Hart barrel. The experiment was a failure, and he removed the device, and finished the match with the threaded barrel, shooting groups that were consistent with what one would have expected from an unthreaded barrel. I don't know the size of those threads, but they may have been under .900.
Since the button rifled barrel that I used for my tuner experiment would get 15/16 fine threads, I figured that I would be OK. As it turned out, I was. Not to disrespect Mr. Calfee, but rimfire and center fire bullets are different animals, so what may be important to one, may not be for the other. Also, the Buckys, Beggs, and Stewart tuners all involve threading the barrel, and they have all been used to win matches. Lou Murdica has done a lot of work with the Stuart tuner, and I do not think that he would have kept threading those barrels if there had been a decrease in accuracy.
On a side note, back in the late 90's, I acted as a go between, between Lynwood Harrell and Lou Murdica, to facilitate testing of Harrel tuners on some of Lou's barrels. After that testing, Lou used one of the tuners on his heavy varmint rifle at the nationals. I asked him if he would have done that it the tuner was not an advantage, and he confirmed my thought that he would not have.
On a personal note, a friend fitted the first tuner that I tried (from Jackie) and stepped the barrel to make weight, and if I had had a lathe of my own, after the weekend that I shot it at the match that I mentioned, I would have cut threads and steps on every barrel that I owned. I still would today. The improvement was that distinct.
I will say one thing about changing barrels by tuning, or whatever. I would expect to have to rework my load.
Since that time I have received a couple of other tuners, and played with them some. This has made me a believer it having some weight at the end of a barrel, as well as some sort of rubber to damp vibrations. The differences are subtle, but they are there. My biggest problem is that none of them read flags.
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