• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Case lube for those loading precision on Dillons

I’m switching over from single stage presses and inline seaters to loading on a Dillon 750. I’ve honed the shell plate, done all the Armanov upgrades. My current SDs are consistently sub 7 currently, and while my shoulder bump was dead nuts 2 thou on the Dillon setup, I’m going to test each component addition on the Dillon just for myself one at a time, ensuring primer seating and bullet seating retain similar low SDs to my sub-7s from single stage, at least single digit.

My question comes in at lubing on the 750. I currently (with single stage) use die wax for resizing, tumble just to remove lube, then use imperial dry neck lube before my mandrel and bullet seating (2 different lubes). But I’m left in a quandary as to maintain my lubing process, while only using two die heads and two total passes on the progressive. So I need to change up my lube process. My thoughts are below….

1. Anneal
First Pass
2. Die wax lube inside and outside of case neck (or switch to one shot?)
3. Dedicated deprime
4. Shoulder bump
5. Mandrel
6. Mandrel again, because things.
7. Dry tumble lube off, then trim on giraud
Second pass
8. Dry lube inside case neck and into case feeder
9. Dedicated deprime #2 to knock any media out
10. Prime
11. Charge
12. Seat

Going back and forth between…
-die wax or Hornady one shot when I’m lubing once before sizing and mandrels in one pass, as I generally wax lube case, size, tumble, then dry lube before mandrel (2 steps of different lube)
-does lubing inside case necks before mandrel really matter at all, if I’ve honed the mandrels to 14,000 grit?
-I read if using dry lube inside case necks, some are even removing carbon with a bronze brush before applying the neck lube. I would be open to trying this, just don’t want to add tons more variables to test to my process as I make the switch to a progressive
Edit- let’s throw one more in there, not because I’ve tested, but just because I have the equipment to. I normally mandrel my lapua .284 brass twice to hit different angles, and use .284 21st century mandrels for 1/2 thou tension after spring back. Any benefit to progressively expanding? Such as a pass at .2835 mandrel followed by .2840 instead of twice on .2840?

Yes I know none of this matters at all when you can’t read the wind, I’m simply trying to advantageously utilize the equipment I have on hand and my current processes.
 
Last edited:
-does lubing inside case necks before mandrel really matter at all, if I’ve honed the mandrels to 14,000 grit?
There are two different buckets of inside neck lube philosophy.

One is for the purpose of neck sizing, where it gets cleaned off before loading.

The second is for the purpose of Coefficient of Friction control and or adhesive friction prevention between the bullet and the case neck, and for long term storage.

I will mention that in some instances, taking a die surface to a very fine level such as a mirror finish or polished, can be just as bad as leaving one too rough.

To keep this simple, I will generalize that if the tool is very hard you polish it, but if the tool isn't very hard you leave a cross hatched texture but not a polished one.

Watch for tool maintenance and you will get a feel for lubrication and brass sticking to the tool. Stop and clean the tools if the brass sticks to avoid galling.

-I read if using dry lube inside case necks, some are even removing carbon with a bronze brush before applying the neck lube.
The coefficient of friction in the case neck is an important parameter for precision loading.

You will want to test anything you do to necks including the difference of virgin brass state and the cycled brass state, and also include annealing. When you are going down the precision rabbit hole, everything you do or don't do to the necks is important. Test the effects on your seating force and it is easy enough to see the effects of brushing or lubing. Pay attention to inside chamfer details too.

If the goal is to automate but then to also prioritize precision, then split the process up as much as required to orient the tooling and steps for precision as the priority. You can look at it as either loading bulk blasting ammo, or using as much automation for precision as possible.
 
well you would be better off with two tool heads, do brass prep on the first and then loading in the second.
i use 2 heads on my 550's and i use simple midway spritz lube..3-5 spritzs per 3-400 cases. tumbled in a gallon baggie. then processed, then cleaned
how do you guys doing this account for case length ??
 
how do you guys doing this account for case length ??
You either use a straight cut with the Dillon trimmer on the machine and then chamfer off the machine, or you just 3-way-trim and chamfer with a Giraud or Henderson, etc. off the machine.

No machine or process I know of that completely preps for precision while staying on the machine without interruptions for cleaning or tumbling.

Even the folks I know who play with using stations for neck brushes still take the process in stages in order to trim/chamfer and clean up.
 
well you would be better off with two tool heads, do brass prep on the first and then loading in the second.
i use 2 heads on my 550's and i use simple midway spritz lube..3-5 spritzs per 3-400 cases. tumbled in a gallon baggie. then processed, then cleaned
how do you guys doing this account for case length ??
Yes, I am talking about using two tool heads. All brass annealed and then prepped on one, then trimmed with giraud and the “second pass “ would be a separate tool head for loading. Super trickler for powder. I’ll be only brass prepping at first until testing adding each component.
 
There are two different buckets of inside neck lube philosophy.

One is for the purpose of neck sizing, where it gets cleaned off before loading.

The second is for the purpose of Coefficient of Friction control and or adhesive friction prevention between the bullet and the case neck, and for long term storage.

I will mention that in some instances, taking a die surface to a very fine level such as a mirror finish or polished, can be just as bad as leaving one too rough.

To keep this simple, I will generalize that if the tool is very hard you polish it, but if the tool isn't very hard you leave a cross hatched texture but not a polished one.

Watch for tool maintenance and you will get a feel for lubrication and brass sticking to the tool. Stop and clean the tools if the brass sticks to avoid galling.


The coefficient of friction in the case neck is an important parameter for precision loading.

You will want to test anything you do to necks including the difference of virgin brass state and the cycled brass state, and also include annealing. When you are going down the precision rabbit hole, everything you do or don't do to the necks is important. Test the effects on your seating force and it is easy enough to see the effects of brushing or lubing. Pay attention to inside chamfer details too.

If the goal is to automate but then to also prioritize precision, then split the process up as much as required to orient the tooling and steps for precision as the priority. You can look at it as either loading bulk blasting ammo, or using as much automation for precision as possible.
Thank you for the great insight. It is appreciated.
 
I have question about your process:
What caliber are you loading?
Do you trim case length after annealing?

The SD you state is great but, what is your ES and are these cartridges accurate?
Are you shooting 100, 300, 1,000 yards?
 
I've been running 2 X 650's and a 550 for many many years. Nothing better than homemade lanolin/alcohol lube. Spray very little on your brass and shake in a bag or plastic bin. Let sit for 5min to let alcohol evaporate and slicker than any One Shot. And it can sit for as long as you want before sizing. Lube does not evaporate.

I mix it in a spray bottle. One full spray bottle mixed up lasts 5+ years.. and I size 100k pieces of brass a year


 
I have question about your process:
What caliber are you loading?
Do you trim case length after annealing?

The SD you state is great but, what is your ES and are these cartridges accurate?
Are you shooting 100, 300, 1,000 yards?
On this last barrel I was testing, SD of 6.9 over 33 shots, ES of 24 over 33 shots. Been shooting on a criterion 1:8 straight 284. My new rifle is almost done, so I’ll be moving to a 32” Brux 1:9 straight 284, Borden brmXD. The savage / criterion setup has been 1/8th moa on a great day, under 1/2 moa all day shooting at 200. It’s dead nuts on horizontal on steel out to 1000, and holds center at 1400, but haven’t grouped on paper past 200 yards yet.

I’d say when it’s 1/2 minute or more, it’s me not shooting it well. When I do my part well, I see mostly 1/4 minute or better 5 shot groups at 200. But I’m still learning to do my part better consistently.

I trim/chamfer/deburr after resizing and mandrel.
 
I've been running 2 X 650's and a 550 for many many years. Nothing better than homemade lanolin/alcohol lube. Spray very little on your brass and shake in a bag or plastic bin. Let sit for 5min to let alcohol evaporate and slicker than any One Shot. And it can sit for as long as you want before sizing. Lube does not evaporate.

I mix it in a spray bottle. One full spray bottle mixed up lasts 5+ years.. and I size 100k pieces of brass a year


can the mixture of lanolin and alcohol effect the primers if too much is sprayed on the brass and shaken up ?
 
can the mixture of lanolin and alcohol effect the primers if too much is sprayed on the brass and shaken up ?
The Hornady One Shot is sprayed on to prep the brass, and needs to be allowed to dry before you size so the alcohol is long gone before the primers show up.
With the lanolin, you also wait to start work, but then typically tumble it off before loading.
 
I've been running 2 X 650's and a 550 for many many years. Nothing better than homemade lanolin/alcohol lube. Spray very little on your brass and shake in a bag or plastic bin. Let sit for 5min to let alcohol evaporate and slicker than any One Shot. And it can sit for as long as you want before sizing. Lube does not evaporate.

I mix it in a spray bottle. One full spray bottle mixed up lasts 5+ years.. and I size 100k pieces of brass a year


Do you clean off the lube before priming? If so, how?
 
With my 750 auto drive I use Oneshot for sizing. I don’t use any other lube in my process to include dry lube. I also only mandrel once. Here are my list of steps using 2 different tool heads:
IMG_0147.jpeg
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
164,899
Messages
2,186,261
Members
78,579
Latest member
Gunman300
Back
Top