Bullet Runout Issues - Help!

[Dolomite]

I just did a simple step, took out the expander ball from my die and use a SAC bushing helped reduce all run out for me. I use a Co-Ax, whidden or harrels die, sinclair mandrel die, and 21st century mandrel, nothing special, adjust die to bump shoulder and bam.... I barely get .001 runout for my 223, 308 and 6br. Other bushings besides SAC gave me more run out anywhere from .001 - .005 for whatever reason.

 

[Dolomite]

I just did a simple step, took out the expander ball from my die and use a SAC bushing helped reduce all run out for me. I use a Co-Ax, whidden or harrels die, sinclair mandrel die, and 21st century mandrel, nothing special, adjust die to bump shoulder and bam.... I barely get .001 runout for my 223, 308 and 6br. Other bushings besides SAC gave me more run out anywhere from .001 - .005 for whatever reason.

I know not everyone is made of money but if its not in your budget to get several SAC bushings, Whidden did work well just not perfect for whatever reason I don't know. I played with o-rings using a RCBS cheap press and was able to keep the run out to .001-.002 using whidden & redding bushings.

IMO if I had to rate the bushings in order SAC, Whidden, Redding, Forster. Yes I bought several of all 4 brands in multiple calibers, had I known better I would have gone straight to SAC bushings. instead of spending hundreds of $'s

Don't get me wrong people have had success with all brands of bushings so I'm not bashing any brand just explaining my experience.

 

[BJung]

I skimmed the replies and you have options.
One option is to use Lapua brass. I once acquired various range brass and Lapua was the most consistent.
2nd option is to remove the expander die that distorts the neck. Then expand the mouth with a mandrel. Without even turning the necks, your neck tension will improve
3rd option is to use a Lee neck sizing collet die. I've gotten very little runout using it. Be sure to lube the shaft because if your case could get stuck in the die. My case did and I had to push and pull my press handle to stretch and bend the case until it broke in order to eventually get the case out.
Your choice of seating dies makes a difference. For my best loads I use a Forster die set. Redding works. Initially, I use RCBS and spin my casings when seating bullets.

 

[Rat Rifle]

I skimmed the replies and you have options.
One option is to use Lapua brass. I once acquired various range brass and Lapua was the most consistent.
2nd option is to remove the expander die that distorts the neck. Then expand the mouth with a mandrel. Without even turning the necks, your neck tension will improve
3rd option is to use a Lee neck sizing collet die. I've gotten very little runout using it. Be sure to lube the shaft because if your case could get stuck in the die. My case did and I had to push and pull my press handle to stretch and bend the case until it broke in order to eventually get the case out.
Your choice of seating dies makes a difference. For my best loads I use a Forster die set. Redding works. Initially, I use RCBS and spin my casings when seating bullets.

I think what happened in Your case, the collet stuck closed around the case neck which was compressed around the mandrel. Often You can feel this coming on. To prevent this, I take the mandrel and collet out after every 50 rounds, clean/lube and wipe off. It seems stuff gets stuck in the slits between the petals.

 

[BJung]

I think what happened in Your case, the collet stuck closed around the case neck which was compressed around the mandrel. Often You can feel this coming on. To prevent this, I take the mandrel and collet out after every 50 rounds, clean/lube and wipe off. It seems stuff gets stuck in the slits between the petals.

Are you saying it's kinda like the collet that holds your case head in place while trimming? Did I miss something or did Lee warn its users

 

[Rat Rifle]

Are you saying it's kinda like the collet that holds your case head in place while trimming? Did I miss something or did Lee warn its users

The warning I remember is “Don’t Raise the Ram Without a Case in the Holder”. This can cause the collet to stick closed, and could break or damage it if too much pressure is applied. I suggest experimenting with down pressure on the press handle to only get the amount of neck sizing You want. If We get bad creases in the neck,We are applying too much down force IMO.

 

[FarmallSM]

Hi all, so I’ve completely gone off the deep end the last few months with precision hand loading. I don’t shoot PRS or anything, but do go out west to hunt every year and shoot often. I enjoy trying to get the most precise loads and accuracy out of my hunting rifles and am just trying to learn as much as possible. I’m focused on 6.5 PRC and 7 PRC at the moment.

In the last few months I have completely upgraded my reloading set up. I’m now running the following setup: Area 419 Zero 2 Press, Area 419 Full Length Micrometer Sizing Dies, Short Action Customs Infinity Arbor Seating Die, Amp Mark II Annealer, Amp Press, Henderson Trimmer, Primal Rights Primer, Ingenuity Precision Powder Trickler with Sartorius Scale, Mitutoyo calipers, Mitutoyo micrometer, Area 419 comparator set, Area 419 Powder Funnel and tube extensions, Accuracy One Concentricity Guage with Mitutoyo dial, and other odds and ends items. I have not yet purchased an Autodod case neck turner, but it has crossed my mind.

I have watched just about every video I can out there, including Primal Rights, Ultimate Reloader, Bolt Action Reloading, F-Class John, etc. and have tried my best to use the same processes in start to finish reloading. I’m currently using new Peterson Brass (sorted to .005” - <.001” neck concentricity), anneal first, then trim/chamfer, brush inside of the neck with nylon brush, powder charge, seat bullet.

I have been able to get down to very good Standard Deviations in my loads (some as low as 3 fps Standard Deviation for 3 shot groups), but cannot for the life of me get consistent or acceptable bullet runout. I’m using Berger Elite Hunter bullets in 140gr. for 6.5 PRC and 175gr. for 7PRC. I take my measurement of bullet runout halfway between the neck of the case and end of the bearing surface (before bullet starts to angle down). My bullet runout measurements range anywhere from .002” to .008”. With the quality of components and tools I’m using, I’m really hoping to get the runout to around .0005” but at this point would take anything less than .002”. I think I may have narrowed this issue to a few things, but would like to get other’s thoughts before I go trying other things:

1. Short Action Customs Seating Die – I’ve heard mixed reviews on the SAC Infinity Die, in that there is too much movement since it is made for any caliber. Thinking of trying Micron dies or anything else that is highly recommended for precision.
2. Henderson Trimmer – The pilot on the Henderson trimmer, while it doesn’t seem to do much to the inside of the neck when trimming/chamfering, I know Primal Rights states the pilot trimmers can impact seating. Although, I know this trimmer is highly regarded by many and used without issue.
3. Change the lubrication for sizing – I currently use Hornady One Shot for lubrication, but this does not necessary get inside the neck well. I’ve heard many shooters using imperial wax as the main lubrication of choice.
4. Neck turning – I have not yet purchased a neck turner, although I’m considering an Autodod. However, in watching various videos, I know getting <.002” bullet runout is very doable without neck turning.

Please let me know if there is anything that stands out to anyone, or if there is something I’m not thinking of. I know bullet runout may not impact accuracy all that much, but its more about the pursuit of trying to get the most out of my loads. It’s also just driving me absolutely crazy lol

Measure concentricity of a fired case, that will tell if your chamber is true. Next size that brass and measure again. That’ll tell you about your die. Then measure again after seating bullet. That’ll tell you about that die. Narrow done what the problem is.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Everyone is correct. Now - do tell me what difference it made on a target - say 300 yds. Can you see the group difference between 2 thou and 8 thou runout?

Your runout is likely caused by excessive neck tension - ie- bullets not seating straight.