bullet doesn't like barrel

[Chiquita]

I have heard this many times.
"My barrel doesn't like xyz bullet, it only likes ABC bullets"

Can the XYZ bullet with the right powder and proper seating depth work?

Or when a barrel doesn't like a nullet, doesn't matter what you do, it still won't shoot well?

I guess I can not understand how a barrel with the correct twist doesn't like a certain bullet

 

[BoydAllen]

I have a friend who bought an AR grendel for top money. He wanted the absolute best velocity and BC that he could get and could never get those components to shoot no matter what charge or seating depth. After just about selling the rifle he switched to different components and it started to shoot really well. If we really understood why this sort of thing happens we could simply look at the specifications of the bullet, powder and barrel and pick what would work the best. We can't. Certainly experience helps, but it will not get us all the way. We have to test. I suppose some of this depends on what one is willing to accept for accuracy.

 

[Homerange]

Magazine COAL is the #1 controlling factor if a bullet will work or not.

 

[AckleymanII]

I have learned to "hedge your bets" with some basic foundational choices:

1. set up the situation where the Cartridge Base to lands/magazine length gives you latitude in being able to not only reach the lands, but chase the lands as the leade grows. NO EXCEPTIONS...NONE! Make your choices accordingly.

2. Use high quality bullets and My personal choice is Sierra and Custom bullets

3. use high quality brass

VLD bullets combined with short detachable magazine lengths can leade you to banging your head on the wall in complete and utter frustration, same category as a bi-polar girl friend.

As Boyd's friend found out, Trial and Error will be the key. Barrels talk, and you have to listen to what they like. In times with shortages of all kinds of components, #1 above is of utmost importance. Option: Precision rifles used for hunting, could be used as a single shot, negating the complications of Cartridge/ Magazine Over All Length, resulting in a more harmonious outcome.

 

[std7mag]

I've had a hunting rifle that shot everything to an acceptable level for me. 5 shots at just over 3/4" at 100 yards.
SST, Interlocks, GameKings, VLD, Ballistic Tips, Partitions, ABLR, ELDX, all shot same grouping.
Only bullet i couldn't get to group was the regular Accubond.
Went from jam to 0.120" off the lands. Changed powder, changed primers. Tried everything i could think of, just wouldn't group below 2" at 100 yards. Went through 2 boxes of them. (I really wanted them to work!)

Finally gave up on them. Now when the regular Accubond are available, i pass on them.

 

[jpx2rk]

I could never get 53g vmax or varmageddons to shoot consistently in my 22/250, tried just about every powder/primer combo possible, one day it was good, next trip nada. 50g and 55g bullets do good/better, but not the 53g's. Gonna swap that barrel out with a 6mmBR.

 

[Lonestar41]

Sam Mallard of Panhandle Precision stated in one of his instructional handloading video’s, “If a bullet will not shoot in your rifle, move on.” His words not mine.

 

[INShooter]

“If a bullet will not shoot in your rifle, move on.”

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[K22]

In my experience, bullet selection has been the most critical element in achieving precision for a given rifle assuming you are using a powder suitable for the cartridge you are loading.

Seating depth can help tighten the group but generally, when a bullet doesn't perform well seating .010 to .020" off the lands, seating depth isn't going to make that much of a difference.

Sometimes changing powders and charge weights can make a difference for a given bullet. For me, charge weight has made a difference rather than changing powders but I always select and use a powder that is well established for a given cartridge.

For example, I could not get the 87 grain Hornady Vmax to group well any of my 243's using well established powders for the 243 for this bullet weight. Whereas some have had tremendous success with this bullet.

An effective method I've used in new load development is to select the accuracy load, i.e. powder that the bullet mfg. states in their manual for that specific bullet. Also, I've found that generally speaking, that Sierra and Nosler bullets are the easiest to work with. However, in my 8" twist 223 Rem's, the 60 Vmax shoots much better than the 60 BT Nosler's.

The bottom line: it's a trial and error process but starting with "accuracy" combo listed in the various bullet mfg. manuals is a good place to start. Also, for me, it's helpful to establish accuracy standards so I don't spend a lot of time in load development. For example, for me, for my varmint / predator rifle / loads, a combo producing a 1/2" or so group consistently is all I need. For big game, 1 to 1 1/2" is enough. Sure we all want one hole groups but do you really need it and is it worth the time and expense to try and find it? For bench rest guys the answer is yes, for me, it's no.

 

[SSL]

There are so many factors involved that no one bullet or powder is going to be the best for every rifle. As an example many people think Varget is the Holy Grail of powders, but I have never had stellar results in any of my rifle/bullet combinations. Bad powder? Of course not. Just isn't right for my chosen loads. Conversely, several powders that others ignore work brilliantly for me. It might be convenient, but how boring would it be if the same bullet/powder/primer/seating depth/case combination worked for every rifle?

 

[Webster]

I have heard this many times.
"My barrel doesn't like xyz bullet, it only likes ABC bullets"

Can the XYZ bullet with the right powder and proper seating depth work?

Or when a barrel doesn't like a nullet, doesn't matter what you do, it still won't shoot well?

I guess I can not understand how a barrel with the correct twist doesn't like a certain bullet

I have a 6BR for Varmint hunting. Keiger barrel installed 2009. About 4200 rounds fired. I have tried close to 10 different bullets. If you shoot enough of them you can clearly see differences. Who knows whats going on at 300,000 RPM. If a jacket or core is consistantly 0.00001" thicker on one side we have no idea what it does to stability.

 

[6MMsteve]

my 6xc criterion barrel will not shoot 105 rdf's I jumped them...7 diff primers.. 5 diff powders...best it would do is 1 inch....some groups were 3 inch....load any other bullet .5 or less...BIB bullets .2's...drove me to drinkin..I shot 3 shot groups with the rdf's look like a UCL LCL out of control chart

 

[Chiquita]

Thank you all for your replies.

 

[gpoldblue]

I have heard this many times.
"My barrel doesn't like xyz bullet, it only likes ABC bullets"

Can the XYZ bullet with the right powder and proper seating depth work?

Or when a barrel doesn't like a nullet, doesn't matter what you do, it still won't shoot well?

I guess I can not understand how a barrel with the correct twist doesn't like a certain bullet

I have a 6PPC that shot VERY well with the 1st lot of brand X bullets.....ran out. Ordered from same more brand X and those would not group as well no matter what adjustments I made. Started measuring good lot against new lot....found new lot were smaller in diameter(same weight). Obtained different brand,but same diameter as my 1st lot of brand X.......back to shooting excellent!!
So,you might want to check some measurements.
Good luck,be safe. Dan

 

[INTJ]

Magazine COAL is the #1 controlling factor if a bullet will work or not.

That isn't what I normally see. Usually, if I have a barrel that doesn't like a bullet, it won't shoot well at any COAL. In many situations I have had bullets shoot exceptionally well with .060" to .100" of jump. I use COAL--seating depth actually--to fine tune the accuracy but I usually don't see a 1.5 MOA load go to a half MOA load by adjusting seating depth. That said, there are almost as many exceptions as there are rules.

In general, I have always thought if the group was bad but the ES was good that the barrel didn't like the bullet, and if the ES was bad but the groups were good then the barrel didn't like that powder. But I have seen exceptions, and I think it might have to do with the level of accuracy we are looking for.

So I guess I haven't been much help here at all. While I am always looking for a "unified field theory of rifle accuracy", I am not there yet........

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I think there are 2 factors at work. One is the fit of the bullet and the other is vibration. Most manufactures spec for groove diameter is -.0000 + .0005". I have measured bullets .0005" under nominal diameter. So you can very easily end up with a bullet .001" under groove diameter. That combo is not going to shoot accurately. You can end up with the opposite situation as well, you will hit pressure much sooner but it will still shoot decent. The ideal fit does give top speeds and accuracy.
The second factor is vibration. Its the same reason a barrel will shoot one powder better than another. The harmonic pattern set up by that powder is more conducive to accuracy for one reason or another. I visualize it as allowing the correct exit timing for the bullet at the correct part of the harmonic. I suspect you could take that powder that wont shoot and alter barrel length or use a tuner to make it work. But the point is, every component we use has an effect on the vibration pattern including the bullet. When the harmonic pattern of the barrel is right, tuning is a pleasure. When its not, you get erratic groups that dont repeat.

 

[Ned Ludd]

This is a very difficult question to answer definitively. People post on internet shooting forums all the time that "such-and-such bullet won't shoot in my rifle", when that bullet seems to work just fine for many, many, other shooters. Unless they describe them in detail, there is no way to know exactly what load development methods they used, or to what lengths they went to get said bullet to shoot. So it can rarely be totally ruled out that they may have simply not given that particular bullet what it wanted. The caveat comes in that for someone that actually does carry out a thorough and rigorous load development procedure, yet still doesn't get results to their liking with a given bullet/powder/primer/etc., how far should one actually go before giving up and switching to something else (i.e. the Law of Diminishing Returns)? If a particular bullet doesn't show some promise and tune in readily, how much barrel life, reloading components, time, and effort should someone spend before moving on? Only the specific individuals can answer those questions for themselves. Nonetheless, when the decision has been made to move on to a new bullet/powder/primer/etc., that does not prove the previous choice could not have been made to shoot well from a given setup with sufficient effort.

 

[Bill Norris]

Sam Mallard of Panhandle Precision stated in one of his instructional handloading video’s, “If a bullet will not shoot in your rifle, move on.” His words not mine.

I believe Sam is correct here. Why continue to waste time and $$$ on a particular bullet when there are so many more that may shoot well with much less effort involved.

 

[RegionRat]

Having been in a heavy weapon system development or two during my working years, I can chime in with what several others have said...

One of the biggest reasons for variations in the outcome, is the tolerance of the barrel and chambering.

Some bullets are also less forgiving to those diameters due to their materials, jacket thickness, and manufacturing methods. If for example you put that bullet into a bore diameter with lands it likes, it does what is expected. Go over or under on one of those diameters and suddenly what was working great turns into a shotgun pattern.

Just take the example of the world of bullseye pistols when discussing cast bullet diameters. Put a cast bullet of identical alloy, lube, and design into the same gun, but use the wrong diameter and you will see why some combinations are better than others. Size that same bullet to the correct diameter for that barrel, and it is like magic.

Cast lead alloy is a less complicated engineering problem than a jacketed bullet when it comes to the effect of the distortions from propellant or the lands and grooves. You can even see these effects very well in precision smallbore and air rifles. A small difference in the diameter of the projectile or the choke of the barrel makes a huge difference in performance. This is where "small" is on the order of much less than 0.001" in magnitude making a night and day difference.

 

[davidjoe]

I have heard this many times.
"My barrel doesn't like xyz bullet, it only likes ABC bullets"

Can the XYZ bullet with the right powder and proper seating depth work?

Or when a barrel doesn't like a nullet, doesn't matter what you do, it still won't shoot well?

I guess I can not understand how a barrel with the correct twist doesn't like a certain bullet

That proposition of not liking a certain bullet may have some truth at the margins, when for example there are say 30 factory load choices in the right weight range, and 30 factory rifles. At the extremes of choices there may be a couple disappointing combinations.

Worn throats might make a rifle finicky. But as to fully functional, quality competition, hunting or tactical rifles, they are going to be able to shoot the appropriate bullets for their twist rate in a very predictable way, and between each other would line up the established choices in close to the very same order, regardless of their origin, and even though some shoot better than others.

For example, 99/100 if not 100/100 .308’s off the used and new gun racks are going to group 168 grain Gold Medal Match factory loads tighter at 100 than FMJ white box surplus. As to just bullets, what makes a particular box shoot well or not is how alike they are, as we all judge bullets by group size, ultimately. If the bullet is deemed not so shoot in barrel, it may be that an occasional flyer caused that conclusion but that the barrel likes the bullet fine, the manufacturer simply has loose quality control. Some guns may be poor enough to get mediocre results from excellent ammo, but there is no truly bad ammo that will just so happen to produce excellent results if only the one “right” rifle out there finds it, like there isn’t an engine that needs faulty fuel to run better.