accuracy question,

[simon6ppc]

hi guys this is kind of a silly question but i have always wondered,to me there are three main things in accuracy,first the right bullet that suits your barrel,then the right powder,then seating depth,am i right in putting them in that order as once i have found a bullet that suits a certain barrel it seems to shoot that bullet with almost any powder i use,but if a bullet doesn't suit a barrel no matter what powder i use it just will not shoot good,i could be wrong, i hope that makes sense,what do you guys think,cheers simon

 

[Grimstod]

When developing a load:
1. Find powder charge first
2. Find bullets seating depth second
If it still doesn't shoot well then you try another bullet.

Seating depth has a big affect on how a bullet will shoot through a barrel. So I look at them as directly correlating and so more or less the same thing. You should not throw out a box of bullets until you have experimented with seating depth(jump to the rifling) first.

As for powder I have not seen any one declare to get outrageously better results(accuracy) with one powder over another. Powder is all about finding the right charge for your barrels harmonics. Choosing a powder is all about chamber size and barrel length and velocity desired or that can be safely attained at a given burn rate.
Larger chamber(cartridge)= slower powder
Smaller chamber= faster burning powder
Longer barrel= slower powder(if you willing to burn it in the barrel)
Shorter barrel= faster burning powder

I recommend reading about ladder tests here for a better knowledge of how Powder charge affect accuracy.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/long-range-load-development/

 

[jcampbellsmith]

hi guys this is kind of a silly question but i have always wondered,to me there are three main things in accuracy,first the right bullet that suits your barrel,then the right powder,then seating depth,am i right in putting them in that order as once i have found a bullet that suits a certain barrel it seems to shoot that bullet with almost any powder i use,but if a bullet doesn't suit a barrel no matter what powder i use it just will not shoot good,i could be wrong, i hope that makes sense,what do you guys think,cheers simon

Simon. These are important, but you're pulling together many factors in order to achieve consistent results. Points that are equally important include:

Consistent brass prep.
A good rifle and scope.
Good execution of your shots.
Reading the conditions you are shooting in.

and I am sure others will identify other aspects.

Regards

JCS

 

[Martin52]

Pretty basic but I agree, you have got to start with a bullet suitable for your barrel's twist rate, if that's out of sync, no powder or seating depth change is going to fix that basic problem. For example, say your barrel is 1:13, you can shoot 155 grainers all day but you will struggle with heavier bullets. Go to 1:11 and its a different story, those 185's will shoot well, unlike their performance in a 1:13.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I dont think there is a "right order". If your seating is way off it will be awfully hard to pick a powder charge.

 

[simon6ppc]

i just think once a barrel likes a bullet it still shoots say under an inch with any seating depth,just the best COL can make it under half inch and better,but if its the wrong bullet no powder can make it shoot any where near an inch.no matter what seating depth or powder you use..

 

[mikecr]

If your seating is way off it will be awfully hard to pick a powder charge.

This is true, and it's why no amount of powder change will really help for bad seated depths.

You can test & set seating first, at pretty much any charge, and then it's easier to see powder's affect afterwards.

 

[Grimstod]

I agree that you can revisit powder like you say mike. I list developing it first because if you seat your bullets close to the lands the vast majority of barrels will prefer it. It all boils down to a system of eliminating variables. You have to start with the variable that has the least variance or the greates probability factor and use that to eliminate the variable(powder charge in this case) that's is the bigest mystery. But I am getting into statistics now and that a little off topic.

 

[mikecr]

But the thing is powder presents less affect to load results than seating. Powder is the fine tune. So it makes more sense to hold powder as a 'random' constant, rather than seating.
As many should have learned from VLDs, there is no good reason to assume seating depths.

Find your best seating 1st, then ladders will present differently. Then, after ladder, final tweak seating to shape grouping. The outcome is also affected by primer/stiking. Don't overlook that.

Where MV or ES ends up with this is an abstract. The only answer there is luck or a tuner.

 

[broncman]

I like to find a powder charge with as low ES as possible and tweak depth next. No tuner I know of is going to help big ES groups at longer ranges.

 

[bow shot]

simon', by the right powder we (I) assume you mean type, and not charge weight.

IMHO, you can't go wrong starting with one of the mfg's recommendations for type (ie, IMR 4350, vs Benchmark, vs RL10X) based on caliber, bullet and twist..

Begin there, and adjust the variables as mikecr has mentioned (in the order you feel confident...):
bullet seating (jump/jam)
neck tension
charge weight

Adjust one variable at a time for "best". Then, move to the next variable and adjust for "best"... etc. You may find that after you've cycled through the variables, that re-visiting them in the same order will yield some improvement.

If you have a rifle for which you have no reason to believe that it is not capable of shooting well, then, only after the above process, would I consider "maybe I should change powder (or primer) types?"

I'm not a trophy winner, BTW, again, this is just MHO. This is what we do in process analysis for high volume manufacturing, and it transfers well for me.

Perhaps the grey-heads here have excellent reasons to deviate. I'm hoping BoydAllen will chime in, lol!!

 

[simon6ppc]

thanks for the reply's guys, what sort of accuracy does it take to give up on a certain bullet or powder,like if i use a bullet that shoots well over an inch at 100 i just give up,thats when ive tried all the seating depths etc,but one that shoots under an inch to me i all ways think has got potential..so i work on that type

 

[bow shot]

If I see an inch or a bit more I consider that there is promise. Be careful not to confuse poor form with the load's potential!

I spent 900 rounds down the tube on one rifle, chasing loads, whatching them "come in" and then "go away"... only to conclude (correctly) that my personal inability to group well was causing me to live in the rubber room :-\ :'(.

Perhaps you are a fantastic shooter already, or are using a rest device that is, well, a shooting machine... then please disregard!

 

[simon6ppc]

to be honest Bow Shot i have shot a 6ppc for 15plus years at fox and paper so with out being to clever with that rifle if i shoot over an half inch group at 100 yards i am disappointed,i got a new VSSF remy 22.250 six month ago and i to have done around 800 plus rounds trying to make it shoot right and have eventually worked out it only likes flat base bullets,after 25 years shooting rifles i know when the gun is at fault or the load i am using,only my reloading knowledge is not to brilliant as i am only self taught,cheers simon...

 

[Witchhunter]

Simon, I had the same problem. It may be the barrel......

 

[simon6ppc]

ye Witchunter ive been told a bad crown will not shoot boat tails,also ive been told that if a barrel shoots one type of bullet good the crown is ok just it only likes a certain bullet, what do you think pal, as mine can shoot certain types of flat base under half an inch at 100 yard,yet the boat tails get like a shot gun has been fired..cheers simon

 

[bow shot]

Understood simon'! We are kindred in this regard (years, experience, and knowledge sources), lol!

I'm with you, If I'm doing 1/2 right off the bat, I have great hopes. That said, I did have one rifle that sprayed 6" (WOW!!!) believe it or not, and it ended up a 0.3" shooter after a good cleaning, and working up a load. I did stick with one powder through it all, Hodgon Benchmark. That rifle also liked IMR 4064, which is quite a different animal...

Cheers likewise!!

 

[simon6ppc]

funny you say IMR 4064 as ive just got some this week for the first time and it does shoot brilliant in my 22.250 with soft points with a flat base,but as ive said earlier the flat base bullets do shoot with almost any powder that fits the 22.250 any way,lol,its all fun though....simon

 

[bow shot]

Aye, mate!