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Neck tension survey.

Ok...to you LR shooters who are anal obsessive about everything. Lets say you have found "the tune" with xyz bullet.....powder charge, the right primer, seating depth, neck tension, ES......everything. Now you want to try ABC bullet of similar weight .....What all do you change?

I know that the powder charge probably will change. Another ladder test.

I am certain the the seating depth would be differant.

I can't imagin having to switch primers.

The big question for me is the neck tension. My guess is that if your gun likes using a .xxx bushing that it would not change with another bullet.

What say you, my fellow anal obsessive (I hope I am allowed to use the "A" word) shooters??
 
I keep everything the same, best powder, same primer, and in the lands, when testing new bullets, including neck tension, whilst, of course, doing a new ladder.


I really wanted to throw in a few choice words for you, but I'm scared of the impending wrath.......


I'll save 'em for a face to face....... ;D
 
4xforfun,
Can't say for sure. However in one of my past barrels I shot two different bullets for two differnt reason. Both shot great. Neck tension (bushing used) didn't change. However I had to jam one bullet, and Jump the other! Hope this helps!
Mark

Edit: Same Primer but different powder charge was used also.
 
I am pretty sure I will need to adjust seating depth....I am going to be going from VLD to regular BTs...berger to Sierra to Horndy. I don't think I have herd of anyone who jams the SMK or the AMAX or even the Berger BT. Everything I hear is .XX off.
 
Look out for differences in bearing surface. I don't mean within a lot of bullets (different subject) but among the various types you intend to test. A longer bearing surface can have a significant effect on pressure.

I leave neck tension alone; rarely, if ever, changing it among the various loads I use. As to jump or jam, almost everything I shoot is jammed from 0.010" to 0.020" depending on the bullet.

I don't do ladder tests. When there's a new bullet to test, I do some initial chronograph tests, check for pressure, then shoot the 3 most promising loads in matches until I've fired at least 100 rounds with each one and have scores to compare. It's a slow process, but it prevents making a decision based on too little information.
 
4xforfun said:
What say you, my fellow anal obsessive (I hope I am allowed to use the "A" word) shooters?

If you feel questionable or uneasy about using certain words here's a way to find good substitutes: http://thesaurus.com/ .
 
i usually use anal retentive.. ::)
i don't change anything if i'm useing the same weight different mfg....
if i'm not doing as well with the new bullet and that is usually what happens....
i will change the contact with lg first then go back to original and change powder,
if that doesn't work.... i give the bullets to someone else and go to the one that does shoot well......... ;D
if it is same bullet different weight i do the powder different and then the l and g distance.....
i'm such a fan of barnes tsx that i try to get it to work in just about all my rifles...
but i can't get them to shoot in my ar as well as nosler bt and sierra... i'm still trying to get them to shoot in my swift but the nosler bt still wins out....
the others shoot bug holes with tsx....maybe it is the heavier bullits that work better....
 
Neck tension is a complex subject. It is something that is very easy to measure -- just neck diameter after seating minus diameter before. The problem is what force on the bullet does that translate to? It depends on the state of cold working of the brass (yield strength). In annealed brass, the neck goes above yield even with a 0.001" neck tension. Once it goes over yield the brass goes kind of like a plastic and when it stretches it really does not put up much of a fight. So if you increased neck neck tension to 0.002" you will not get double the force on the bullet, and may only get 10% more. When the brass yields it is somewhat insensitive to fit.

However, once you fire and resize the brass (even once) it becomes significantly stronger due to cold working. Yield may be 75% higher after one firing, and the same neck tension will be giving you 75% more force. The point is that you have changed nothing in your loading, but you have nearly doubled the bullet grip force. Same thing happens on the next reload cycle.

The reality is that unless you anneal after every reload your bullet grip is changing significantly already. Variation in the number of reload cycles is more significant than the tension in the neck. Don't mix brass from one cycle with another if you think neck tension is important.

I guess my point is that absolute bullet grip force is changing more significantly from load cycle to load cycle already -- probably more than you are changing it with a different sizing bushing. And, if you want to compare notes with what other shooters use for grip, the number of reload cycles is a more important number than the amount of the fit.
 
RonAKA said:
Neck tension is a complex subject...The reality is that unless you anneal after every reload your bullet grip is changing significantly already. ..

I have been wondering about this. Anybody anneal after each firing?
 
4xforfun said:
I don't think I have herd of anyone who jams the SMK or the AMAX or even the Berger BT.

I jam everything, meaning a square mark on the ogive.
 
thefitter said:
RonAKA said:
Neck tension is a complex subject...The reality is that unless you anneal after every reload your bullet grip is changing significantly already. ..

I have been wondering about this. Anybody anneal after each firing?

I anneal before I shoot anything where the results matter including tests, matches, and even fireforming new brass.
 
I anneal after every firing now. I don't before using new brasss unless it is a wildcat that had to be worked much to get prepped the first time.
 
alf said:
4xforfun said:
I don't think I have herd of anyone who jams the SMK or the AMAX or even the Berger BT.


I jam everything, meaning a square mark on the ogive.

That would sure make life a whole lot easier...just jam them all!! But, you know me....I am always going to have that little voice in the back of my head (ok...in my case the voice isn't so little) saying "what if?".

Now, since I have always used berger VLD's in my match ammo, my results were always like yours...a solid jam...every time. I have never done the BT, SMK, or the AMAX thing before....I just gotta try and appease the "VOICE" and try the jump thing!!

First things first, though...gotta find the right bushing.
 

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