Browning B78 25-06 Reloading Tips

[25-06 Mike]

Good morning forum,
I am having trouble developing loads for my 25-06 B78 Octagon Barrel, and would appreciate any advice,

Here's some preliminary data,
- Barrel 26", twist 1:10
- Job on the trigger by gunsmith, breaks clean & crisp.
- Job on forend, used to touch barrel, now it's floated.
Currently I am reloading,
- Neck Sizing just touching case shoulder, no feeding or extraction issues that I can see.
- 110 gr Nosler Accubonds,
- 53.5 gr of RL22
- Winchester Brass - now onto 4th reload
- Federal 210 primer.
- COAL 3.231""
- Jump to lands 0.015"
- AVG Muzzle speed - 2,940 fps,
- New Leupold VXII 3.5x10, nice and tight !
- Group size averages 1.5" @ 100 yd. (No vertical or horizontal stringing, nice constant triangles)
- Remington 120 gr Factory Ammo averages 2930 fps, so I can also assume no chronograph issues.
- Neck runout < 0.001"
- Bullet runout < 0.002"

NOTE: As soon as I arrived at 54 gr of RL22 I started seeing flattened and blown primers with past federal brass.
- I really hope I can get more accuracy and speed out of this 110 accubonds, I wonder if the bullets need to be pushed back a bit to relieve some possible initial pressure.
- I wonder given the 26" barrel length perhaps I should try a slower powder such as IMR7828 ?

Any advice will be most welcome as I would like to use this come next whitetail season

 

[KMart]

I am loading a 115 Berger with IMR 7828ssc. Winghester brass and Tula LRM primer You should find a node between 54and 55 grains. It shot 3 shot groups in the 1/2" range at 200 with both a 115 Berger and 120 Hornady 120 flat base HP. I did not chronograph to check the speed.

 

[JRS]

What kind of groups are you getting from the factory Remington ammo? Concentrate on accuracy, not so much on speed. Try some H4831SC.

 

[25-06 Mike]

Many thanks for your input,

The Remington 120 gr groups open to around 2", however they chronograph at just 10 fps less than the 110 gr Accubonds, with no signs of pressure whatsoever on primers with the 120 gr factory loads, therein lies what I consider a real mystery.


I agree completely, my main objective is accuracy as long as I can maintain speeds over 2900 fps, otherwise I feel the flat shooting benefits of this caliber would be lost.

I wonder if anyone has any experience using IMR7828 with this caliber-bullet combo ?

Thanks a mill

 

[Wingnut00]

No experience with 7828 but retumbo behind 115 Berger is magical in my sendero. 3209fps avg. h-1000 is also great. Both are more temp sensitive than 7828 also.

 

[kcjim]

I have a Sako A7 in .25-06. I had trouble developing an accurate load with 110 Accubonds using various powders. My groups significantly improved with Ballistic Tip 115 grain bullets. The newer Ballistic Tips are a tougher bullet than the old Ballistic Tips. I use Reloader 22 powder. I am very pleased with the performance of the newer Ballistic Tips. I like Accubonds if they shoot accurately in a rifle. My .300 WSM shoots the 150 gr Accubonds very accurately.

 

[25-06 Mike]

Thanks all,

Great news !!
I have plenty Nosler 115 Partitions I could use, what RL22 charge are you using, what speeds are you getting from the 115 gr BT bullets and what length is your barrel ?

Thanks again,

 

[wapiti25]

Try the Berger bullet. I have had issues with Nosler bullets in the past, one box would shoot next not so good. I called Nosler and they said "no problem with our bullets". I do not buy Nosler stuff anymore. The 117 Sierra has shoot well for me also. I like H1000 for 25-06 with heavy bullets. I tried the Hornady 120 HP and it would not shoot in my M70 25-06, try a 100 gr Sierra using IMR 4350, one of the most accurate loads in my gun. I do like the B78 but I do like my 1885 better. B78 is in 30-06 and 1885 is 38-55.

 

[kcjim]

Thanks all,

Great news !!
I have plenty Nosler 115 Partitions I could use, what RL22 charge are you using, what speeds are you getting from the 115 gr BT bullets and what length is your barrel ?

Thanks again,

My barrel length is 22". I am using 55 gr of RL22 which is a pretty stiff load in my gun. Actual velocity is 3100 fps. Bullets seated 0.030" off. Of course, Partitions are a different bullet than Ballistic Tips and will probably not shoot the same.

 

[25-06 Mike]

Many thanks kcjim !!

I will give the partitions a try and will let you know,
I may start with 53 grains or so, I have plenty or RL22 so I hope it works.

Thanks a mill,

 

[ireload2]

If you want to test your rifle use the flat base 100 grain Sierra Spitzer. I use IMR 4350 with this bullet.
My 25-06 Model 700 was made about 1972. It never shot the longer heavier bullets very well. They included the Hornady 120 HP.
The 100 grn Sierra flat base is a tough bullet and has penetrated through and though on 10 white tail bucks. It did stop inside 1 shot head on in the brisket at dusk. The coyotes cleaned up the remains before I could get back to find the bullet.
I also recommend that you shoot your rifle with your off hand under the fore end and you should grip the fore end.
The hand under the fore end will detect when you lean on the butt stock with your face. You might try letting someone familiar with shooting single shots
fire a group or 2. These rifles tend to be more sensitive about how you hold them on the bench. Do not lean on the butt stock with your face.
I would get rid of the neck sizing and use FL sizing with minimal shoulder push back - about .001 to .0015. If you have significant drag on the breech block when closing the breech, the block may not rise to full height and the hammer will not fall completely resulting in no strike on the firing pin.

 

[quartermaster]

My 25-06s always liked imr 4831

 

[fourpower]

Good morning forum,
I am having trouble developing loads for my 25-06 B78 Octagon Barrel, and would appreciate any advice,

Here's some preliminary data,
- Barrel 26", twist 1:10
- Job on the trigger by gunsmith, breaks clean & crisp.
- Job on forend, used to touch barrel, now it's floated.
Currently I am reloading,
- Neck Sizing just touching case shoulder, no feeding or extraction issues that I can see.
- 110 gr Nosler Accubonds,
- 53.5 gr of RL22
- Winchester Brass - now onto 4th reload
- Federal 210 primer.
- COAL 3.231""
- Jump to lands 0.015"
- AVG Muzzle speed - 2,940 fps,
- New Leupold VXII 3.5x10, nice and tight !
- Group size averages 1.5" @ 100 yd. (No vertical or horizontal stringing, nice constant triangles)
- Remington 120 gr Factory Ammo averages 2930 fps, so I can also assume no chronograph issues.
- Neck runout < 0.001"
- Bullet runout < 0.002"

NOTE: As soon as I arrived at 54 gr of RL22 I started seeing flattened and blown primers with past federal brass.
- I really hope I can get more accuracy and speed out of this 110 accubonds, I wonder if the bullets need to be pushed back a bit to relieve some possible initial pressure.
- I wonder given the 26" barrel length perhaps I should try a slower powder such as IMR7828 ?

Any advice will be most welcome as I would like to use this come next whitetail season

I have been shooting 25-06 for 60 years and have the first Remington sendero to come into my state. I always loved this gun but it was getting old! 5 years ago I tried some bergers 115vlds and now I am really in love. this gun shoots them into half or better groups and shoots great at 1000yds if I do my part. I have tried accbonds but cant get them to shoot in any guns. in my 25-06 they get about 4in groups@ 100yds period. my go to load for all 25-06 that I reload for is 115 bergers 57gr h-1000 speed 3105fps. I set all brass at zero headspace if gun will take it. I have taken a ton of deer with this load and 1 of them was @ 904yds. this load just shoots lights out!!

 

[Berger.Fan222]

The Berger 115 VLD is the most accurate bullet available for the 25-06. The second is likely the 115 grain Ballistic Tip. Had much less success with Accubonds. RL-22 can do the job, but I've seem some pressure issues develop with temperature swings. I would take care with powder charges and STOP at the first signs of pressure.

My preferred powders are H4831 and H1000. RL-22 can get 100 fos or so more speed some times, but can take more work to make shoot accurately.

Whichever powder you try, I'd start with an OAL 0.050" or so from the lands and vary your powder charge in small increments from a min load up toward a max load writing down group sizes and velocities as you go. Look for pressure signs at every step and STOP if you see signs of high pressure. If you don't find a powder charge that shoots 1 MOA or better, I recommend trying a different bullet.

Once you find the most accurate powder charge, if you want to tweak accuracy further, you should load up a number of different OALs, moving closer to the lands in steps of 0.010 or so. Most of the time, you should be able to shrink the group size further by 30-50% with this approach. But sometimes you are already at the best OAL, and the group size grows or stays the same.

 

[JRS]

The Berger 115 VLD is the most accurate bullet available for the 25-06. The second is likely the 115 grain Ballistic Tip. Had much less success with Accubonds. RL-22 can do the job, but I've seem some pressure issues develop with temperature swings. I would take care with powder charges and STOP at the first signs of pressure.

My preferred powders are H4831 and H1000. RL-22 can get 100 fos or so more speed some times, but can take more work to make shoot accurately.

Whichever powder you try, I'd start with an OAL 0.050" or so from the lands and vary your powder charge in small increments from a min load up toward a max load writing down group sizes and velocities as you go. Look for pressure signs at every step and STOP if you see signs of high pressure. If you don't find a powder charge that shoots 1 MOA or better, I recommend trying a different bullet.

Once you find the most accurate powder charge, if you want to tweak accuracy further, you should load up a number of different OALs, moving closer to the lands in steps of 0.010 or so. Most of the time, you should be able to shrink the group size further by 30-50% with this approach. But sometimes you are already at the best OAL, and the group size grows or stays the same.

I'll have to disagree with the Berger VLD Hunting bullet being the most accurate for the 25-06. The BIB 110 GR BT is probably the most accurate 25 caliber bullet made, with the 88 GR BT next in line, do in large part to them being made on the correct length jacket

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I'll have to disagree with the Berger VLD Hunting bullet being the most accurate for the 25-06. The BIB 110 GR BT is probably the most accurate 25 caliber bullet made, with the 88 GR BT next in line, do in large part to them being made on the correct length jacket

No doubt there will always be some custom made bullets that shoot better than mast produced bullets from the industry leaders.

In a decent rifle, a reloader should be able to get their groups well under 1 MOA with a mass produced bullet. Even in factory rifles, a lot of folks have gotten the 115 VLD to do 0.5 MOA without too much fiddling.

Perhaps once a reloader gets to that point, he might consider a custom bullet to shave off a few more tenths. But I don't think it's advisable to try and make that jump with a factory rifle that hasn't broken 1.0 MOA yet.

 

[25-06 Mike]

Thanks all for your input, I was starting to go nowhere sticking to the 110 gr. Nosler AB
I will prepare some 115 gr Partitions of which I have plenty with RL22 and will certainly post updates.

I have also been told IMR7828 might be too slow for this combo, any thoughts ?

Here's a few pics of the primers using Winchester Brass, including a blown one.
I lack experience diagnosing primers, I would love to hear some comments. Primers used are Federal 210.

This is the max load I reached using 54 gr of RL22 with the 110 gr Nosler AB
This is the only Winchester case I've had problems with, but using Federal brass I had a few more instances.

I am seating the bullets 0.010"-.015" from the lands, could this be an issue ?

Again, many thanks all for your input.

 

[nmkid]

My load for 110 gr. Accubonds is 51.0 grs. of 4831SC. About .015 off and it shoots great.

 

[timeout]

I have a Rem 700 25-06 with a heavy fluted barrel that loves the Berger 115 HVLD's and H4831SC. I get about 30 fps more with the SC than same load of H4831.

 

[ireload2]

Knock out the blown primer and check it under a microscope. It looks like it could have pin hole defect.
You can also check the primer pocket diameter to see if it expanded the primer pocket.
Your primers don't really look that flat but it is easy to be fooled.
Another way to judge pressures is to measure the pressure ring diameter at the junction of the case walls and the case head. Compare to factory loads in the same cases.

Thanks all for your input, I was starting to go nowhere sticking to the 110 gr. Nosler AB
I will prepare some 115 gr Partitions of which I have plenty with RL22 and will certainly post updates.

I have also been told IMR7828 might be too slow for this combo, any thoughts ?

Here's a few pics of the primers using Winchester Brass, including a blown one.
I lack experience diagnosing primers, I would love to hear some comments. Primers used are Federal 210.

This is the max load I reached using 54 gr of RL22 with the 110 gr Nosler AB
This is the only Winchester case I've had problems with, but using Federal brass I had a few more instances.

I am seating the bullets 0.010"-.015" from the lands, could this be an issue ?
View attachment 992248 View attachment 992249
Again, many thanks all for your input.