Blueprinting and accuracy improvement - any proof?
- Thread starter rsilvers
- Start date
;D
308 remington rifle.
after trying lot's of different powders,buying redding reloading dies,fitting a jewel trigger,skim bedding,and playing around with quickload.I managed to get my remington to shoot 0.5 moa,it can be done.
Then about 2 years ago my girl friend got a .308 remington sps.
I gave her my skim bedded vs stock,and fitted a rifle basics trigger.
Remingtons have a long throat,and i noticed my 2.916 col would work in her rifle.
A friend gave 100 round of surplus ammo,and we broke the barrel in.
After running the barrel in i noticed it was rough looking,machine marks.
I loaded my load for her, lapua brass,155 scennars,and vit 150 powder.
Her first BR comp was a 1000 yards,and she shot it off a harris bipod.
She shot ok for her first attempt but nothing special,hey it was her first time.
Her second attempt at 1000br,i managed to get 3'' aluminum plate to fit on her stock.
So she could use my sinclair rest.
Well she ended up shooting a 5.5'' group at 1000 yards,she got the small group for factory sporter.Not bad for a .308 at 1000 yards,and she was shooting next to guy with a 6.5 x 284 NORMA f class savage rifle who got a 6'' group.
She ended just beating me to come 3rd at 2009 UK Bench rest shooting factory class last year,1st and 2nd were 6.5 x 284 NORMA f class savage rifle.
Only last month she got a 2.755'' group at 600 yards,check out page 98http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/
Gentle men you tell me would this rifle benefit from blue printing ?.
My excuse is i think remington a little tired 3000 plus rounds,my girl friends just done 1000.
after trying lot's of different powders,buying redding reloading dies,fitting a jewel trigger,skim bedding,and playing around with quickload.I managed to get my remington to shoot 0.5 moa,it can be done.
Then about 2 years ago my girl friend got a .308 remington sps.
I gave her my skim bedded vs stock,and fitted a rifle basics trigger.
Remingtons have a long throat,and i noticed my 2.916 col would work in her rifle.
A friend gave 100 round of surplus ammo,and we broke the barrel in.
After running the barrel in i noticed it was rough looking,machine marks.
I loaded my load for her, lapua brass,155 scennars,and vit 150 powder.
Her first BR comp was a 1000 yards,and she shot it off a harris bipod.
She shot ok for her first attempt but nothing special,hey it was her first time.
Her second attempt at 1000br,i managed to get 3'' aluminum plate to fit on her stock.
So she could use my sinclair rest.
Well she ended up shooting a 5.5'' group at 1000 yards,she got the small group for factory sporter.Not bad for a .308 at 1000 yards,and she was shooting next to guy with a 6.5 x 284 NORMA f class savage rifle who got a 6'' group.
She ended just beating me to come 3rd at 2009 UK Bench rest shooting factory class last year,1st and 2nd were 6.5 x 284 NORMA f class savage rifle.
Only last month she got a 2.755'' group at 600 yards,check out page 98http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/
Gentle men you tell me would this rifle benefit from blue printing ?.
My excuse is i think remington a little tired 3000 plus rounds,my girl friends just done 1000.
It was to still off to the outside of the barrel, but not to the the threads. I really only cared about the bore being centered in the muzzle threads.
It is normal to have a bore that is not centered in the barrel. But when you cut threads, you should reference the threads to the bore rather than to the outside of the barrel.
In the high production environment of a factory, it would be ok if it was +- 0.003 or so. If they improved their precision by a factor of 3 it would be about what I would expect for a factory gun and about what you would see on an AR15 muzzle thread.
It is normal to have a bore that is not centered in the barrel. But when you cut threads, you should reference the threads to the bore rather than to the outside of the barrel.
In the high production environment of a factory, it would be ok if it was +- 0.003 or so. If they improved their precision by a factor of 3 it would be about what I would expect for a factory gun and about what you would see on an AR15 muzzle thread.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2162&cid=1
Their 5 shot/5 group average - while still quoted as their best of the day, should be within 10% of the typical MOA with that ammo. Since they got 0.9 MOA, then it is a true 1 MOA rifle. Which is good. Really for high-round-count testing 1.5 MOA or better is good for a field rifle.
Their 5 shot/5 group average - while still quoted as their best of the day, should be within 10% of the typical MOA with that ammo. Since they got 0.9 MOA, then it is a true 1 MOA rifle. Which is good. Really for high-round-count testing 1.5 MOA or better is good for a field rifle.
From what info I could gather from this thread, and what I already know from 44 years of reloading and shooting, what sells rifles now is the "accuracy right out of the box".
And we all know who were talking about, the S Mfg, the one with the wonderful Barrel nut. I believe the barrel Nut has done a lot to improve Savages sales, and they look just fine to me.
If your the type that wants to change barrels, calibers or even build there own rifles, without having to hire a gun smith, Savage is the way to go, no machine shop required. And a lot of people have gone that way, including me, unfortunately for the Remchester Co's.
My collection of guns is at least average in size, about 40, and in the last 5 years, all I have bought for rifles, is Savage actions, and do the rest myself, and with better than .5 moa results.
Remington could use a barrel nut themselves, there sales might go up as well, but thats a lot of crow to eat.
And we all know who were talking about, the S Mfg, the one with the wonderful Barrel nut. I believe the barrel Nut has done a lot to improve Savages sales, and they look just fine to me.
If your the type that wants to change barrels, calibers or even build there own rifles, without having to hire a gun smith, Savage is the way to go, no machine shop required. And a lot of people have gone that way, including me, unfortunately for the Remchester Co's.
My collection of guns is at least average in size, about 40, and in the last 5 years, all I have bought for rifles, is Savage actions, and do the rest myself, and with better than .5 moa results.
Remington could use a barrel nut themselves, there sales might go up as well, but thats a lot of crow to eat.
One of the things that was interesting on the Savage tour was the chambering. Barrel is set up in a milling machine type device with a tool head with four stations. First a piloted drill removed much of the chamber material, then a roughing reamers was employeed followed by the finish reamer and then a brass brush to clean it out. All with high pressure cutting oil from the muzzle.
The actual barrel to receiver was performed at a bench with the barrel in a barrel vise. Barrel nut, recoil lug and action were threaded on. Bolt was installed in the action and a Go gauge inserted. A pneumatic drill with a preset torque adapter was used to thread the receiver with the go gauge to the barrel. Then a calibrated torque wrench device set the barrel nut at 70 ft pounds. Finally a no-Go gauge was inserted to test for headspace and off the barreled action went.
The actual barrel to receiver was performed at a bench with the barrel in a barrel vise. Barrel nut, recoil lug and action were threaded on. Bolt was installed in the action and a Go gauge inserted. A pneumatic drill with a preset torque adapter was used to thread the receiver with the go gauge to the barrel. Then a calibrated torque wrench device set the barrel nut at 70 ft pounds. Finally a no-Go gauge was inserted to test for headspace and off the barreled action went.
I have mixed feelings about the barrel nut. I know the advantages - you can install a barrel easily. But on the downside - you need to headspace it each time. Also it may be less precise compared to a real shoulder which is always square.
With a Remington you can set up a new barrel once and then just change them without needing a gauge.
With a Remington you can set up a new barrel once and then just change them without needing a gauge.
The floating bolt head makes the shoulder squareness to the action less of an issue, like it is with the Remington and other actions. I am seriously interested in the Bighorn action from Goddard, but have not seen any reviews from actual users yet. The floating bolt head is one of the reasons that the Savages are so accurate for a production rifle.
rsilvers said:
rsilvers:
I dont think thats much of a down side, its not like I take the barrel on and off all the time. And its real handy to set the barrels headspace to your F.L. sizing dies, then adjust the bushing neck/shoulder bump Forester die, with a shoulder bump of about .002 bump. It make the brass last a long time. And I'm not sure you can do that with out the Nut.
I have an H-S Precision HTR 2000, rifle in 308, its not a Remington, but its similar is some ways, but a lot better quality and accuracy, and it hasn't got a Nut. But then I dont plan on pulling the barrel off in my life time.
Its factory test target was a .245 moa, and I have done that well a few time, but the problem is me. All in all, including me on the trigger, its a .3 to .4 moa rifle, and thats not bad for a 308.
I do have two BRs, one each 22BR and a 6MM BR, both made on Savage actions, with Pac-Nor barrels, Rifle Basic triggers Etc Etc, and the 6BR will shoot in the .1s some time, but with me running it, its closer to .3s on avg. The 22 BR is still new, and in testing.
So, for a rifle I want to mess around with myself, its got to have a Nut, and im not talking about the one behind the butt plate. :
Mike.
No factory action can compare to a nice custom action.
Today I entered the egg shoot competition hosted by user rbertalotto.
At 100 yards, I entered my Remington .223 with factory sporter (thin) barrel. Rem trigger, HS Precision stock. I developed some hand loads with Fowler 52 grain flat-base bench rest bullets. I was able to hit 15 eggs with 15 shots. That got me into the runoff where they changed the targets to 1/2 inch lollipops. I missed my first shot on that, and a guy with a Bushmaster AR won.
At 200 yards, I used an unmodified Remington M24. Because the price was over a cap, I was not in the basic factory class. It took me 16 shots to hit 15 eggs - which was good for me, but not enough to win against these better shooters with their full blown 6mm BR and 6x47mm rifles.
At 100 yards, I entered my Remington .223 with factory sporter (thin) barrel. Rem trigger, HS Precision stock. I developed some hand loads with Fowler 52 grain flat-base bench rest bullets. I was able to hit 15 eggs with 15 shots. That got me into the runoff where they changed the targets to 1/2 inch lollipops. I missed my first shot on that, and a guy with a Bushmaster AR won.
At 200 yards, I used an unmodified Remington M24. Because the price was over a cap, I was not in the basic factory class. It took me 16 shots to hit 15 eggs - which was good for me, but not enough to win against these better shooters with their full blown 6mm BR and 6x47mm rifles.
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