Black hills "match" brass is no match...

[robinzon]

Got a bunch of Black Hills "MATCH" brass from someone I think on The Hide... and of course its no match.... wall thickness has .002-.003 variation can't really bushing size that stuff... was going to turn it but no way I am going to turn down by .003 to achieve lot consistency and then having to get likely a .331 bushing if not .330.... I am disappointed I guess going to stick to Lapua though I was going to just neck turn this BH lot for fun (I don't bother turning Lapua or god forbid Norma which is very thin walled). Let me know thoughts, I mean seems to be Winchester Brass some said Starline... who knows .

 

[Ned Ludd]

You generally get what you pay for in the shooting sports. High quality brass isn't cheap. I've purchased small quantities of some Starline brass offerings, as well as Lake City. Although the quality isn't bad, especially considering the price, they're certainly not Lapua. The various cartridges I purchased clearly have less uniform neck/wall thickness than Lapua, and require more attention to the primer pockets/flashholes. I view this brass as fine for plinking and general shooting use, but there's no way I'd ever load it up for a match.

 

[robinzon]

I never tried it before, some seem to like their ammo... I load almost everything myself but got this lot, figured I try it. I would not load BH for anything precision oriented. Still I do have some minimal expectations. What wall thickness do you get for lapua? Usually its pretty consistent at .015

 

[LVLAaron]

Assuming you want 308, give Alpha 308 small primer a shot.

 

[NC308]

They use Winchester brass. Same stuff if you buy Winchester brass in a bag. Nothing special.

 

[Rob01]

Stop measuring it and load it. I use a .331 bushing with it and it loads pretty accurate ammo.

 

[robinzon]

Stop measuring it and load it. I use a .331 bushing with it and it loads pretty accurate ammo.

Of course I could do that... but then why would I use my 21st century hydraulic Arbor press with a pressure gauge Its a proof of concept
so that I can keep tension around 30psi when loading... I have both the 21st Century Hydraulic Ram as well as the K&M regular force pack arbor presses... suddenly I decided to go to Wilson dies.... go figure.... I like the portability of loading these on by regular desk.

Yeah of course I can use .331 or just a good ole RCBS non-bushing die but where's the fun in that... who needs a Pumpkin turner, yet I still have one bottom line it was the principle of it, to load a batch with same neck tension and see what happens. I use to never bother and still get good results, I guess I got bored.

You use a .331 with Black Hills specifically?

 

[Rob01]

Yup. Actually just loaded some up over the past couple months that I prepped And primed back in 2007 and have had bagged since. Made some very accurate ammo.

 

[RegionRat]

I don’t speak for Black Hills, but I don’t think that they make any brass themselves, so it isn’t very accurate to call it Black Hills brass as far as I know.

In 5.56, all I have ever seen from them is Lake City or Winchester. I think they buy the same brass you can buy from the same sources and load it.

As far as their loadings are concerned, you would be hard pressed to find better commercial or Mil-Spec ammo in 5.56 and their 308 is as good as FGMM.

Their ammo gets tested and I end up testing via matches where certain bases have rules that say we must use factory ammo. No, it isn’t as good as my handloads at distances beyond 300 yards, but it comes close.

As far as Winchester or Lake City brass, it isn’t the same standards as Lapua or Norma. However, there is no reason it couldn’t be sorted and prepped, but that is a trade of your time versus your money.

If you want to save some time, just go with the Lapua and get as much as you can so your batch can be as large as possible without process changes.

 

[Cap'n]

As I understand it, Black Hills is a re-bagger for other distributors. If they operate like most be-baggers, a distributor would purchase very large quantities of unpackaged bulk brass. The distributor would contract Black Hills to re-bag it in 50 or 100 case bags specifically for them. Bottom line, the re-bagged brass would have a lower inventory cost to the distributor, which could be passed on to the consumer and/or add to the sales margin for the distributor. I've used .22-250 R-P headstamp from Black Hills and it seemed the same as other Remington bulk brass.

 

[243winxb]

Got 20 firings so far. No annealing on this neck turned brass. Fired brass came from new Black Hills ammo a guy was shooting.

May not be BR brass, but works for me. Free Brass.

Black Hills-

We supply all match 5.56 ammunition for the US Military’s Service Rifle Teams and provide specialty ammunition for specific military operations.

And in the spirit of pushing limits, these rounds come with the same no-nonsense lot acceptance accuracy test (10 groups of ten shots each at 300 yards) provided on military lots. No lot will ship unless it shoots sub 2″ groups (.64 MOA maximum/10 shot groups). http://www.black-hills.com/product-category/mk-262-mod-1-c-mil-pack/

 

[robinzon]

Got 20 firings so far. No annealing on this neck turned brass. Fired brass came from new Black Hills ammo a guy was shooting.

So he turned the necks or you did? some brass in my lot is .013 neck thickness... the rest 80% is .015... I am not really keen on turning necks to .013 on the while lot that is a little think... some even border on .0125... making whole lot to .012-.013 worries me a bit.. as these are not the Norma .013 factory neck that are the strongest out there (different metalurgy).... Measure your necks let me know what they are.. thanks

 

[robinzon]

BTW: The primer holes are also not consistent.... I primed with the $600 CPS tool today and measured primer depth with another $$$ piece of equipment from Accuracy One most seat at -.002 some go to -.004 I mean yes I am sure I can make them group at .5 MOA... but my point is if you advertise your stuff as MATCH GRADE have better quality consistency... at least same size primer holes then again not everyone drills them precisely... I am yet to find brass that satisfies all parameters should try Peterson and Alpha see what happens... NORMA turns me off with the thin necks, though now that I got bushings down to .331 I may as well use it...

 

[243winxb]

you did?

I turned the necks with a 100% cut. I see no reason to only turn 75% or whatever partial amount someone wants to remove.

Brass changes from lot to lot.

 

[robinzon]

I turned the necks with a 100% cut. I see no reason to only turn 75% or whatever partial amount someone wants to remove.

Brass changes from lot to lot.

I turned the necks with a 100% cut. I see no reason to only turn 75% or whatever partial amount someone wants to remove.

Brass changes from lot to lot.

I was not asking about the amount to the shoulder but rather to which thickness

 

[Stumpy1]

I was not asking about the amount to the shoulder but rather to which thickness

It might be he turns to an approximately 100% cleanup on the diameter of the neck -some folks only do a partial neck turn to get off the worst of the high spots.

that still doesn't answer your thickness number though...

 

[robinzon]

I don’t practice taking off high spots I turn to a set consistent diameter of the lot otherwise what’s the point

 

[243winxb]

100% cleanup

Is needed, even more if using a bushing die & sizing only about 1/2 of the necks.

Just how i see it.

 

[Minshooter]

To avoid confusion, there are two totally separate Black Hills Companies, both located in Rapid City, SD.

Black Hills Ammunition loads and sells their well regarded Military Match and other ammunition.

Black Hills Shooters Supply is a wholesale distributor of shooting components;
They sell components to dealers only, and do not sell loaded ammunition.

(Side note: BHSS, like everyone, is currently working in considerable backorder, which greatly exceeds incoming supply).

 

[robinzon]

To avoid confusion, there are two totally separate Black Hills Companies, both located in Rapid City, SD.

Black Hills Ammunition loads and sells their well regarded Military Match and other ammunition.

Black Hills Shooters Supply is a wholesale distributor of shooting components;
They sell components to dealers only, and do not sell loaded ammunition.

(Side note: BHSS, like everyone, is currently working in considerable backorder, which greatly exceeds incoming supply).

We are talking about Black Hills Ammo and they use Winchester brass.