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Bipod for F-TR?

It is every newcomers dream to show up and spank the big boys! But I assure you, with even the best equipment, in FT/R.....EVERY ONE must pay their dues to the great equalizer...WIND!

Money cant buy experience...it takes time to get the experience!

Take it from a newer FT/R shooter, you gotta love the chase and make NO excuses for any bad shooting or you will not improve
 
Johnboy said:
Ok I just read all of the post and understand all who posted to this thread.Now with that said I fall in the few who wants to keep the FT/R class simple.I will soon be a part of this for I will be shooting at my first match at the end of May.Now since I am wanting to get into this sport I have read a lot about it,so I am somewhat up to speed.If I am wrong in any way please say so,but I understand that the FT/R class was made around the idea to bring in NEW SHOOTERS.It was meant for shooters who didn't have the option of a really nice rig ( custome built ) to be a part of the match shooting world.To this is why the rules are made up for more of a stock rifle,from sights to weight,even the type of rest used ( bipod ) being the only type.Even the idea of only allowing two cals to choose from ( 223 and 308 )

Now with all that said I feel that the highend shooters have taken this class ( FT/R ) to a whole new level.It was ment to add new shooters not to let better or higher paid shooters out do the little guys.Again please correct me if I am wrong in any way,its just the fact to what I have learned about the sport ( FT/R class ) I
've read and learned it was ment to give a chance for new guys like me to get into the sport.So my thoughts would be to keep it real and simple,not all kinds of setups you can add to keep ahead of the new guy.I would love for one of the rules to rule out barrels that are longer than 24" to 26".This alone would keep the playing field simple,it would allow the new guys a better chance to hold their own.

Johnboy, I believe that the "Beliefs" you expressed in your post are pretty commonly held, the fact that they are wrong is not offtened explained thus promoting the myth. The truth of Class as been pretty well explained by ryanjay11, sleepygator and broncoman. I won't dwell on that as there explanations cover it well.

To ad a note, F/TR the class was not even a part of the original F-Class. It was just that F-Class, F/Tr came along after f-Class was up and running in Canada for some time.

The rules are not made up for a stock rifle, certainly not as far as sights are concerned. Also your idea ( I have heard this before) that barrels should be limited to 24" and 26" is one wrought with mistakes. To do this the shooter is going to HAVE to load the heavy bullets as you will not be able to keep the light .308 bullets super sonic out of a 24" barrel. This will add to the cost of reloading as well as add a lot of recoil. It is much, much harder to shoot a harder recoiling rifle well that a milder recoiling rifle. This one fact alone would chase shooters away from F/TR.

F/TR was also never intended to level the playing field, the fair is not in the rules any where. Best to just leave it alone and shoot it the way it is and was intended to be. Shot and have fun...

Roland
 
Not one time did I say to what one could or could not shoot other than it being a 223 or a 308,( the rules say that ) I just put out there that it should or needs to be more about the shooter and not the rifle.Sure its nice to be able to go out and build yourself a really nice rifle.The fact is the shooter's who started the FT/R class wanted to keep it simple and not go all out for a class to be in.The fact alone of guys wanting to or being able to change things is already walking a fine line. ( I read this here in another thread but cannot remember to what thread it was ) The thread was based on the rules and how the class got started,to this is where I got my info from.Shooting is no different than racing,its all based on money nothing else.Take stock car for an example,it started with a stock car.The guy who won was the better driver,with the most horse power from the car of choice.Now with lots of money and hight tec stuff,the more money and better tec stuff the better you are.The driver is there for one reason to drive.Shooting on the other hand deals with the better bullets and barrels,I truely think the action has anything to do with it.Put these things together with a good shooter,and you end up with good groups at lond ranges.

Again keeping the FT/R class simple with simple rifles will show you who has the stuff to shoot.Putting a lot of lights on a Christmas tree doesn't always mean its the better or prettier tree.My point was that if you have alot of new guys getting into the sport with their all they could afford rifles,then how is it fare to them.I know to how fast my load is from my rifle,its running 2529fps from my 24" barrel,but when you add the 4-8" to the barrel the bullet has no other thing to do but go faster.This alone will give that guy a better chance at the wind game one will be playing while shooting at 1000.These are the changes I am talking about that just takes the idea of shooting against another guy who has the edge on me/someone who has a more so stock rifle.The game in shooting is knowing how to shoot,not how much you can put into one rifle to out do another shooter.I like the FT/R class because its in the area of my rifles range,I would be dumb to fall in line with guys on a F-class line up,this is why I am getting into FT/R,my rifle fits the bill,or should I say falls into the rules of the class.Most shooters forget the time they started and what they had at that time,and I 'd bet most started with a stock rifle and moved up when they could.Me when time to build I'll keep it simple,same barrel length and shoot what shots best from that barrel.Another to point to look at is,the more you want to walk the line with the rules the less trigger time you'll get.This just means your on the net asking more questions to see if theis will work or not.If you already know to whats going on with that one rifle with less stuff on it,then you should be the guy to watch out for at the range.BUT here asking questions all the time related to rules keeps you from shooting and knowing what your load is abke to do.

I know I am not going to knock out someones recored in May,but I do know I will give it my best and walk away with a smile.My goal is to learn and take what I learn to get better at it.Not to see how I can bend the rules to better suit me to get an upper edge on the next guy.This alone has changed the world of shooting like it did for racing.The rifle,ammo and the guy make the shooter,not the better stuff one puts on it or how much he spent in time and money.Keeping things simple keeps it fare and turns out a good shooter.I would love to know a simple rilfe took the match rather than a high end rifle any day,for this alone would show me that the shooter and his rilfe was a team to beat.
 
If you really want to compete with what you have, shoot Mid Range matches. There is nothing easy about 600 yards and that eliminates many problems that .308s have at 1000 yards. Once you see what other people are shooting and get a better feel for the sport, make your own decision about how to proceed.
 
Beginners are often pointed at F-T/R because the initial equipment requirements are nominally less than F-Open to simply participate.

That doesn't mean that the skill level or equipment requirements to -win- are any less. Quite the contrary.

You're arguing for a "factory" type class that simply doesn't exist. Sorry.

-nosualc
 
Johnboy, The only person wanting to change the rules is you. The rules were written and are abided by today, nothing there has changed. No body is walking a fine line as you say they are, they are playing well within the rules as they are and where written. Just because a guy can afford to spend money on a custom rifle for F/TR doesn't make him a bad guy, maybe he just prefers fine custom work to Factory work. I promise you that if and when you do shoot a match there will be F/TR rifles on the line that costs a lot of money.

Don't try and change F/TR to fit your preconcieved ideas of the way it should be according to Johnboy. If you want to do that start a new shooting sport and call it want you want to, build your own sandbox to play in. If you really want to shoot F/TR the way it is your then going to have to play in someone else's sandbox, there game, there rules.

Bi-Pods are evolving, that is what this thread is about, and they are doing that complettly and totally within the rules.

Roland

As I was about to post this nosulac made a very good point that I agree with complettly. That is the skill level to shoot F/TR as compared to F-Open. Because of the caliber limitations of F/TR ( and I shoot both Open and F/TR) F/TR is a complettly different game really. I also feel that it may just be way tougher than Open to do well in.
 
Seb,

Thanks for the info... should be interesting to see how it pans out in actual use. Keep up the good work!

Johnboy,

Howsabout you actually go shoot the discipline in question for a little while before telling the rest of us how it 'should be'? I'm guessing after some exposure to the sport in the real world, not just reading about it on the Internet, your opinions may be a little different. Even if they aren't... at least you'll have a bit more credibility all around. As it sits... I seriously doubt you're going to convince anyone here to forsake their evil ways and re-shape the sport as you think it was 'intended'.

Monte
 
The jump from midrange 600 to 1000 was the whole reason I bought a 30" barreled factory savage....

I know of no one else that makes a 1000 yard capable 308 in a factory package..maybe some of the new target remmys but shorter makes it very marginal.

Before F Class did anyone? So F class was not started for "factory" rifles....

SEB, looking forward to seeing your bipod in action!
 
Finally time to chime in on this one. FTR is not tactical it is target rifle. You can be competitive with a STOCK SAVAGE but it will not put you right to the top. To get there talks lots and lots of practice and testing. Personally I have close to 100 hours this year alone. That is my choice it is what I enjoy doing. Can you come out and beat me without practicing, well someone can. If you want to compete get a rifle start reloading and i will see you on the range.

If you want to complain about a arms race shoot a BB gun.

James Crofts
FTR SHOOTER
 
Va Jim said:
Finally time to chime in on this one. FTR is not tactical it is target rifle. You can be competitive with a STOCK SAVAGE but it will not put you right to the top. To get there talks lots and lots of practice and testing. Personally I have close to 100 hours this year alone. That is my choice it is what I enjoy doing. Can you come out and beat me without practicing, well someone can. If you want to compete get a rifle start reloading and i will see you on the range.

If you want to complain about a arms race shoot a BB gun.

James Crofts
FTR SHOOTER

Ding Ding Ding!!!!! And we have A Winner!!

I shoot a full blown custom rig built by the same gunsmith as VA Jim. I only get to shoot a match every now and then. JAMES WHIPS me everytime with a Savage Action. However I don't let it stop me from enjoying what matches I can shoot or the time with friends on the range. Like a 80yr old man tells me all the time Shut up and SHOOT!!!!!!!! ;D ;D
 
Ok guys I understand 100% what ya'll are saying,and I have come across as to I want to change the rules.I am sorry for not being a wording kind of guy,I lack in this area and rather talk than type it out.I am bad about that so I am sorry if I came across this way.I just wish most would keep it simple and not want to try and out do the other guy,for this is how this thread got started in the first place,by making a newer and better bipod RIGHT.I am sure at the time the FT/R class was built around simple rules,such as useing a bipod and rear bag,along with the cals being 223 and 308.F-clas is a much greater class any cal with a better rest for the frount rest ( more like bench but prone )

Yes,I will agree that FT/R has been told as the best to first get into for comp/match shooting.I will even add that most who get started into comp/match shooting start in the FT/R class because of the rules,first one being that it must be a 223/308.My ideas have all so been talked about before from time to time,I know this for the searching I have done on this site,but all so know to how touchy this subject can be,maybe I should have kept my fingures off the keyboard.It's just the fact that most are always trying to out do someone rather than give it their best with a more simple setup.

Yes,I would disagree on the RT in FT/R does stand for tactical rifle or at least everything I have read say it does.I guess I have read this wrong too.

You guys are right I haven't shoot in any kind of match yet,but will soon and I'll be asking all kinds of questions when the time offers it.I and know I'll be right beside a few if not more custom built rigs than stock.I'll add that some custom rigs have been beat before from the post and info told to me.Will my stock rig out do someones custom I haven't a clue,I have too much to learn when it comes to reading wind,but hope to hold my own with what I know and have.Its just the fact that I think some take it to the most outter limits when it comes to rules.I read things in simple terms and try not to make them what I want them to be.So when I read the rules I read 223/308 with a bipod and maybe a rear bag.I didn't read the best one could buy with all the bells one could get for it.To me walking a fine line just means trying to cheat while staying in the rules.I see it no different than what some racers do to stay ahead of the game,when the rules are simply put ther to follow,not bend.

again I am sorry for my words and how I came across to some if not all.I just offered my opinion and thoughts to how it could help to prevent the bending of the rules to let this or that be OK.I am sure I am not the only guy who might feel the same to some of what I had to offer.I am out and off this thread,my bad for trying to offer an opinion
 
Johnboy said:
To me walking a fine line just means trying to cheat while staying in the rules.I see it no different than what some racers do to stay ahead of the game,when the rules are simply put ther to follow,not bend.
[br]
If you are within the rules, you are not cheating. Serious competitors read the rules carefully so that they are fully compliant. No one wants to drive or fly across the country to be told that their rifle does not qualify.
 
broncman said:
The jump from midrange 600 to 1000 was the whole reason I bought a 30" barreled factory savage....

I know of no one else that makes a 1000 yard capable 308 in a factory package..maybe some of the new target remmys but shorter makes it very marginal.

Before F Class did anyone? So F class was not started for "factory" rifles....

SEB, looking forward to seeing your bipod in action!

Not to stir the pot as I'm with you about the "history" and why we do what we do broncman, but Savage made a 112BT Compitition series of rifles in 1993 through 2003 or so, they were available in .223 Rem., .308 Win. & single shot 112BTS in .300 WM. All had 26" blackened stainless steel barrels, receivers were drilled for PALMA Sights and the barrels were turned to 750 at the muzzle, laminated stock, palm swell, ventilated forend, accessory rail, adjustable cheek rest, butt pad and all for one reason, shooters who wanted to compete.
 
You are so correct! I forgot about those! I remember looking at a Savage in about 95-96 before I had heard of Highpower and before internet, wondering what the rail thingy in the fore arm was for

Ken
 
memilanuk said:
Seb,

Thanks for the info... should be interesting to see how it pans out in actual use. Keep up the good work!

Monte

Thank you for your support sir.
seb.
 
Va Jim said:
Seb

Looking forward to meeting you at the FCWC.

James Crofts
Va Jim

That must be a great time Jim!

Give me some more days to finish the bipods.

I'll take some pics before I send the units.

ATB,
seb.
 

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