big money on ations...

[LHSmith]

The Savage action rifles the team was using where "out of the box"

Yeah, and service rifle teams used randomly selected service rifles for competition as dictated by rule :.....not saying they were not "out of the box"....but how many boxes did they go through? .....or did they just happen to set aside some exceptionally accurate rifles during testing prior to shipment.
As you said, Savage barrels ain't world renown for their super-accuracy....what are the chances they got four shooters back to back off the production line.

 

[bozo699]

I've had a few savage actions with the full treatment and you will end up with 1100-1150 dollars in them. SSS T&T with evo trigger, PT&G oversize bolt body, SSS bolt handle, gre-tan bushed firing pin, farrel base. Yes with the evo trigger (has lighter firing pin spring than standard savage) the bolt lift is as light as a Bat and they are pretty smooth since the action was reamed for the new bolt body so it was tight like a custom. The trigger still ends up at about 4 oz for it to be safe and be able to gun your shots down fast without tripping the sear. Yes they shot well, and it would be competitive in F-Class and also somewhat competitive in 600 and 1000 yard shooting.

I would not even try to use a Stock Savage and plan on going into the benchrest game and being competitive..

Now before the custom side screams BS about bolt lift I have had Bats also and Borden.

Now...reason for sale you say? Why to replace them with a custom to shoot 600 yard IBS. The trigger is the down fall and after you get them modded you are only 3-400 dollars short of the custom with a trigger and scope base. Think I sold the savage actions for about 800 bucks where I have used a Bat for a season and sold it as a stocked action for what I had into it componet cost wise and did not loose a dime, only my labor.

With that said If you are going to actually dedicate your time and effort and be within such such a close price range why would you want to go through the headache and deal with the wait time for the action work and still end up with a trigger that is not really even close to a Jewell and this is what will set them apart in the short range BR game.

Shooting IBS match costs, components, driving; I will go with the best equipment I feel I need to shoot and be competitive. But just because you buy a custom action you still need to have (all) of the right equipment to go with it or you will be pissing in the wind!

Bench Rest shooting is just like racing....it takes money and time if you want to make it to the top! And I would not ever think about going to a race to run around in the back!

And for what it is worth here is my Borden Rimrock plug.....TRIGGER TIMMING IS SUPERB!!!!

My two cents take or leave it.

Dallas Johnson

Dallas,
I'll take it!!! That's the best post so far on this thread, thank you.
Wayne.

 

[walley2960]

Perhaps he has a savage action which is true and square. The action is only one part of a rifle. My understanding is that two barrels were used in this comparison (not the same!!). I wonder maybe if a shooter believes one piece of equipment to be better than another that would have some bearing on the execution of his shots.

 

[madderg]

Perhaps he has a savage action which is true and square. The action is only one part of a rifle. My understanding is that two barrels were used in this comparison (not the same!!). I wonder maybe if a shooter believes one piece of equipment to be better than another that would have some bearing on the execution of his shots.
Some years ago i designed a cartridge that ended up to be very close to the 6 Shehane, my best group was .042 niches for 5 shots... that's not bad in anybodies book. that was in the end of 1998.

 

[madderg]

Some years ago I designed a cartridge that ended up to be very close to the 6 Shehane called the 6mm/284 Madd, my best group was .042 inches for 5 shots... that's not bad in anybodies book. that was in the end of 1998. That was with a Sako Forester action and a Pac-Nor barrel with Hornady bullets. I think a great barrel and fine-tuned loads go farther than $1400.00 actions, thats just my thoughts. If I had lots of money I would have lots of expensive actions maybe... but I'd still have a fine shooting Savage target action rifle or two.

 

[WyleWD]

Perhaps he has a savage action which is true and square. The action is only one part of a rifle. My understanding is that two barrels were used in this comparison (not the same!!). I wonder maybe if a shooter believes one piece of equipment to be better than another that would have some bearing on the execution of his shots.

A lot of good posts on this, but (even though he's from Meeesheegan).... I agree with walley2960. I'm not a Savage owner or admirer for that matter, but have competed against a butt load of them, both in factory and custom classes and respect their accuracy potential in the hands of a capable rifleman. MOST of the time, it is the pilot of the rifle, on the day and conditions he's shooting in, his reloading prowess, mentality during the relay, bench / shooting disipline, parralax adjustment, etc etc. Another shooter could have shot that same rifle and reloads etc and had a score no where near that of a well tuned rifle & shooter. Confidence in your equipment, loads, etc is (in my opinion) absolutely key to execution of good shots.

In the disiplines that I shoot in (mostly varmint matches), the top 3 factory rifles in a given match normally outscore 75% or more of the custom rifles in that match. Does it mean that the customs aren't as good..... my personal belief is that success it is associated with the shooter's execution, relay conditions, etc. more than custom vs "factory" action. And there is my 2 cents worth. WD

 

[Lazydays]

Why?? if the action is true, and the threads are matched...the bedding top-shelf and the stock equal to the task what would be the difference?

So, we are talking Savage actions that have been trued? I really doubt those F/TR shooters won with Savages just pulled off the line.
The differences could be one action machined true to the extent the bolt is always at the same precise position while in battery, and threaded to the barrel with near perfect concentricity, firing pin vibration that is precisely consistent shot to shot, action flex (customs tend to be more rigid), bolt compression, action harmonics...some claim aluminum actions dampen vibrations better ( which may be why Panda's are the winningest action in short range BR), receivers adaptable to premium grade triggers which permit pull weights in ounces.....and intangibles which one cannot explain such as taking two identical actions and sometimes one will shoot better than the other...even with the same barrel.

An aluminum bedding block also works to dampen vibrations, as does a small 2X2 square of the right sized closed cell foam pad under the barrel at the last 2 inches of the stock. The Savage action rifles the team was using where "out of the box"

I checked the first action I had in a coordanite measuring machine at work, and it came in at about .0015". The second one had a little more error, but was well under .002" error in it. The third one came in at about .0013". I've also checked another half dozen on the surface plate, and they all were in that range. I made a 12" tube with a ground thread that I knew was very strait and yet not heavy enough to tax the bridge of the action. I rarely saw one that had over .001" error in it measured off a surface plate that I knew was lab grade. The worst place I saw error in was the trigger mounts (how much I don't remember), Savage could do a better job in the bolt raceway, but was no worse than anyother I checked in the past.
gary

 

[Lazydays]

The Savage action rifles the team was using where "out of the box"

Yeah, and service rifle teams used randomly selected service rifles for competition as dictated by rule :.....not saying they were not "out of the box"....but how many boxes did they go through? .....or did they just happen to set aside some exceptionally accurate rifles during testing prior to shipment.
As you said, Savage barrels ain't world renown for their super-accuracy....what are the chances they got four shooters back to back off the production line.

hasn't been all that long ago, that I looked over a custom shop built Savage. It was in 6BR, and had a 30" barrel (why?). The trigger was setup at the factory for a pull between 10oz. and 12oz. and zero creep. The barrel was not fluted. The stock had three bedding screws. Came with a proof target using off the shelf Federal ammo that was about .150" for three shots. Not bad for a $1700 rifle!
gary

 

[xs hedspace]

I put a Kreiger barrel on a Savage action, put it into a surplus wood prone stock with an aluminum bedding block, and made Master in Palma, before the eyeball went south. It will shoot 5 155 gr Sierras into a hole the size of a 20 ga slug at 100 yds. I think the secret is the floating bolt head on the Savage. Took a while to master the 2 lb trigger on the bench, but I bet that a Canjar trigger can be adopted to the standard trigger for a 2 oz pull. Maybe my next project.....