Better accuracy
- Thread starter simon6ppc
- Start date
If you have a load you like , go to the seating depth testing. I start at the lands and work back in .003 thousandth's increments. Some bullets like a good bit of jump like .050 thou or even more. So now you have this to do and report back how it works out. What caliber , bullet, powder are you using? Is this a custom gun or factory?
Kinda depends on what you define as okay accuracy. What is your starting point?
A .22ppc match rifle that is delivering 10shot groups at .7" is not yet into its realm. A .338Lapua delivering that is getting pretty close... All things are relative if we are talking @ 100yds...
Pretty hard to beat the Sierra Accuracy Loads in their manual as a good starting point. Use those components and load by their guidelines and you should see some decent results. Of course, if you haven't adjusted your trigger to a crisp break with no creep, you will be fighting that. 2lbs is a good starting point to learn trigger management. If you are shooting competition then, I guess, you learn to manage a 4oz trigger right from the start.
A plainjane factory rifle delivering .75" groups at 100yds is really a good thing. With careful analysis of the variable and tuning you should be able to improve your results. Also might elaborate on your expectations and how you have the rifle setup now. More data, the more help you should be able to obtain....
A .22ppc match rifle that is delivering 10shot groups at .7" is not yet into its realm. A .338Lapua delivering that is getting pretty close... All things are relative if we are talking @ 100yds...
Pretty hard to beat the Sierra Accuracy Loads in their manual as a good starting point. Use those components and load by their guidelines and you should see some decent results. Of course, if you haven't adjusted your trigger to a crisp break with no creep, you will be fighting that. 2lbs is a good starting point to learn trigger management. If you are shooting competition then, I guess, you learn to manage a 4oz trigger right from the start.
A plainjane factory rifle delivering .75" groups at 100yds is really a good thing. With careful analysis of the variable and tuning you should be able to improve your results. Also might elaborate on your expectations and how you have the rifle setup now. More data, the more help you should be able to obtain....
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
You should read up on some loading posts on benchrestcentral.com for ppc loading tips
ok.the cal ime using at the moment is a 243 Ackley in a RPA with a 26 inch Walther barrel..ime using the 105 grain Amax for long range, fox and vermin.it shoots around the half inch to be honest,some groups are well under but some slightly over to..i believe it should be under all the time,,ive used a 6ppc for 15 years and may be ime after the same accuracy .ime seating the bullet at 2.700 COL which 99 percent is kissing the lands with 44 grains of vit 165...i know this load is slightly on the weak side for the Ackley but it seems nice to shoot doing around 3050 ftps or just under
Simon, sounds to me you are well on your way to what you want. the thing I usually do at this point (when I get .500 with some groups under) is begin to look at two things
first -easiest -watch my loads for consistence of powder, bullet seating pressure, case consistency of weight/neck thickness and OAL base to OJ. (jump)
second - hardest - me position, cheek pressure, hand grip/pressure on stock, eye position to scope, shoulder pressure, finger position on the trigger, breath, etc.
finally once I am comfortable with these I start with powder, +/_ .2 gr up and down to be sure I am at the node, second after that I begin to alter seating depth .004 starting slightly into jam and backing out to max of about .020.
what ever these steps yield I consider to be It for that bullet/powder combo, if I still am hungry I switch bullets, Sierra are my favorite factory for accuracy. Watch weight/length of bullet and Twist of bbl to stay in harmony.
Bob
first -easiest -watch my loads for consistence of powder, bullet seating pressure, case consistency of weight/neck thickness and OAL base to OJ. (jump)
second - hardest - me position, cheek pressure, hand grip/pressure on stock, eye position to scope, shoulder pressure, finger position on the trigger, breath, etc.
finally once I am comfortable with these I start with powder, +/_ .2 gr up and down to be sure I am at the node, second after that I begin to alter seating depth .004 starting slightly into jam and backing out to max of about .020.
what ever these steps yield I consider to be It for that bullet/powder combo, if I still am hungry I switch bullets, Sierra are my favorite factory for accuracy. Watch weight/length of bullet and Twist of bbl to stay in harmony.
Bob
Wind , conditions or shooter error make all our reloads look bad. LarryOtter said:
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
The guys that shoot the smallest groups at 100 and 200 yards know that they need wind flags. Typically the vast majority of the I want to shoot better guys stop short of that. The other thing that you can do is to do a systematic load work up, loading at the range, which will allow you to try more combinations in less time. Other factors have to do with things like trigger pull weight, what sort of scope you are using, and whether it is set to be truly parallax free, the quality of the bench, rest and bag setup, stock design, and rifle balance. Often shooters who have not had experience with a very accurate rifle and load, may have little glitches in how they handle the rifle and pull the trigger that limit their results. There is a lot more to shooting small than seating depth and powder charge.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
Its depends on what type of accuracy "ok" is to you. To me, "ok" accuracy is .7"-1" at 100 yards. "Good" or "really good" accuracy is .6"-.3" at 100 yards. "Excellent" accuracy is anything under .3" at 100 yards. Depending on what I use the rifle for, I might stop at "good" accuracy.
I like to work up loads where they are shooting "ok" to "good" with 2-3 powders then try primer changes. The best loads from those results I then make minor powder charge changes. Seating depth is the last thing I do if it is even needed at all because it has made the least bit of difference in my experience. If I get "excellent" accuracy without the above changes, I go to seating depth and neck tension or leave it where it is depending on the intended use of the rifle. Not saying that's the best way to do things, it's just what has worked well for me.
I like to work up loads where they are shooting "ok" to "good" with 2-3 powders then try primer changes. The best loads from those results I then make minor powder charge changes. Seating depth is the last thing I do if it is even needed at all because it has made the least bit of difference in my experience. If I get "excellent" accuracy without the above changes, I go to seating depth and neck tension or leave it where it is depending on the intended use of the rifle. Not saying that's the best way to do things, it's just what has worked well for me.
First place I would look is the Shooter. If you don't have good accuracy at 100 why would you have better at longer distance? Many of times I have taken a load that shot well a week ago and the next week it was junk.
Go in the club house for a half hour and return to find it was better then the week before.
Good shooting is 20% Gun and 80% shooter. With good shooting habits and practice the number can be totally backwards. The best advice I can give is to have a good shooter try your gun and load. If he shoots it better then you. I would ask him for help. Women and kids are the best students to teach. Larry
Go in the club house for a half hour and return to find it was better then the week before.
Good shooting is 20% Gun and 80% shooter. With good shooting habits and practice the number can be totally backwards. The best advice I can give is to have a good shooter try your gun and load. If he shoots it better then you. I would ask him for help. Women and kids are the best students to teach. Larry
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
"Women and kids are the bet students to teach." Absolutely.
Over the years I have helped a lot of fellows with their bench shooting of ordinary, non competition rifles. Pretty much all of the time I have been able to improve their results. Usually, when I have observed the same fellows shooting a couple of months later, they have completely forgotten what worked, and are back to their old bad habits. Perhaps 20% will have made a permanent change for the better.
As I see it, men, especially those who have been shooting for some time, think that they know how to shoot, when in most cases they really do not. Not only do they have the additional burden of bad habits to overcome, but on top of that, many have ego issues that get in the way.
Give me a beginner every time, and in particular, a woman who has a genuine desire to learn how to shoot, and is not afraid of firearms. They do not generally have the bad habits or the ego issues, which makes for much faster progress.
Over the years I have helped a lot of fellows with their bench shooting of ordinary, non competition rifles. Pretty much all of the time I have been able to improve their results. Usually, when I have observed the same fellows shooting a couple of months later, they have completely forgotten what worked, and are back to their old bad habits. Perhaps 20% will have made a permanent change for the better.
As I see it, men, especially those who have been shooting for some time, think that they know how to shoot, when in most cases they really do not. Not only do they have the additional burden of bad habits to overcome, but on top of that, many have ego issues that get in the way.
Give me a beginner every time, and in particular, a woman who has a genuine desire to learn how to shoot, and is not afraid of firearms. They do not generally have the bad habits or the ego issues, which makes for much faster progress.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
HOW DARE YOU TWO!!! I can't believe you would tell any of us that we might possibly have bad shooting habits!!! 
;D
;DYou forgot Hard heads also. ;D LarryLedd Slinger said:HOW DARE YOU TWO!!! I can't believe you would tell any of us that we might possibly have bad shooting habits!!!
thanks for all the replys guys,hmme how do i say it,ive lived and breathed shooting at paper at 100,200,300 yards for the last 20 years with a 22 and 6ppc so ime no stranger to triggers,shooting era etc,what ime saying is i know when its me or the rifle,but i am self taught when it comes to reloading so ime not 100 percent i do it the right way,hence why i ask the questions on here,if either of my ppc,s shoot over half inch at 100 yards ime not happy..but the ppc,s seem easier to load for than the Ackley..i just think the 243 RPA i own should shoot half inch day in day out,may be i am wrong as its just a caliber not made for it,but i think it is,cheers for the reply's again Simon..when ime on form the picture below at 100 yards is what my ppc,s can do..
Attachments
Simon, clearly you have experience and the ability to shoot very tight groups,
when I experience this and a rifle that is off and on the group I seek, I find most of the time the load, powder/primer/bullet/sizing/neck tension/seating depth -- one or more are on the edge and not fully tuned for the gun.
work on the load one item at a time, checking velocity/ groups, etc. and keep those changes that help.
Bob
when I experience this and a rifle that is off and on the group I seek, I find most of the time the load, powder/primer/bullet/sizing/neck tension/seating depth -- one or more are on the edge and not fully tuned for the gun.
work on the load one item at a time, checking velocity/ groups, etc. and keep those changes that help.
Bob
ye cheers pal..i suppose ime a stranger to the 243 Ackley and once i find the right spot i should be ok,ime going to try very little neck tension next and may be more bullet jump as ive got it touching the lands at the moment and take it from there,thanks for the reply's again as every one does help me...cheers Simon..
Better than what?
Kind of depends. If you are regularly shooting 5rd groups under .35", how much "better" can you expect with a 6mm bullet?
If your barrel has over a thousand rounds, or even 500; maybe it has lost its edge for best groupings?
What are your expectations, and what are you now experiencing? Maybe I missed all the details, but did you provide enough info to even relate what you are doing now?
There are reasons most use PPC for benchrest. Do you expect to be able to be the guy who pioneers and proves the way to better results with a different case? You say you shot .22 and 6mm PPC. Do what you did to get your ammunition in tune there, but understand those cases foster about the best possible results at 100/200yd benchrest. Maybe your chosen case is never going to be as competitive or tight-grouping? You may be at its limits?
Can always go with a lightweight off-hand fired rifle for more challenge and to put "accuracy" potentials in perspective.
Kind of depends. If you are regularly shooting 5rd groups under .35", how much "better" can you expect with a 6mm bullet?
If your barrel has over a thousand rounds, or even 500; maybe it has lost its edge for best groupings?
What are your expectations, and what are you now experiencing? Maybe I missed all the details, but did you provide enough info to even relate what you are doing now?
There are reasons most use PPC for benchrest. Do you expect to be able to be the guy who pioneers and proves the way to better results with a different case? You say you shot .22 and 6mm PPC. Do what you did to get your ammunition in tune there, but understand those cases foster about the best possible results at 100/200yd benchrest. Maybe your chosen case is never going to be as competitive or tight-grouping? You may be at its limits?
Can always go with a lightweight off-hand fired rifle for more challenge and to put "accuracy" potentials in perspective.
simon6ppc said:
Simon,
.243AI is a super barrel-burner. May as well be shooting 6mm/284... I think you are getting SUPER results!
If you are over 500rds on your Walther barrel, it is likely your issue.
6mm/XC or 6mm Intl AI would offer you more longevity in the barrel dept.
You were probably shooting 60gr bullets in your 6ppc and almost half the powder. Recoil is going to have some influence
to your detriment as well.
What you really have is a 1000yd cartridge. Why not stretch its legs a bit?
Congrats and good luck!
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