Order of Importance to Accuracy?

[Dave M.]

Any issues with sear engagement using such a light trigger?

Mine is set at 3oz and my girlfriend’s is at 1.5oz. Not a single issue. Keep it clean and free of lube and debris and it is super consistent.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Post #33 and 40 are the best answers...they follow my philosophy so I guess I'm biased
I have to ask how the opening posters list is made to include primer seating depth/case volume/case weight and not to include bullet sorting in different dimensions or weight...annealing...neck brushing?

 

[fatelvis]

Ok, I’ll play:
1) bullet
2)powder
3)powder charge
4)bullet seating depth
5)neck tension
6)brass
7)neck turning
8)primer
9)case volume
10)case weight
11)primer seating depth

 

[R.Morehouse]

If you take conditions and the "jerk" behind the trigger out of the mix. I would think......

Barrel/Bullet combo & their tuning at distance.
Scope that will maintain point of aim....

Anyone can start there with an open wallet and a bit of Luck/Education.

Regards
Rick

 

[davidjoe]

I wonder if each factor that I listed can be quantified in a delta of group size in moa?

I don’t think wind, the shooter, or the size of the group is necessarily captured in the question.

Match reloading boils down to the bullets chosen, exiting the muzzle as near as possible to the same desired speed every shot, that’s truly the sum total of it, while physical gun choices already made in a build, determine how closely that muzzle can be made to be pointed at exactly the same place, when it exits.

These two things, and the OP is really only talking about one of them, are technically completed less than a quarter of an inch from the muzzle, and would be ideally measured without a human shooter, in a tube, from a machine rest. If the question is also about real world conditions at 1,000, then when and if all other things are equal, the answer is really simple, higher BC determines superior group size at 1,000, and every distance from the muzzle, which is why a ballistics app will project the same drift for a given BC and speed, regardless what caliber or bullet weight, if any, is inputted.

So many of the discreet choices, so long as all the rounds in the box are made the same way, don’t seem to have a bearing at all on ES and SD.

 

[243Mendoza]

Post #33 and 40 are the best answers...they follow my philosophy so I guess I'm biased
I have to ask how the opening posters list is made to include primer seating depth/case volume/case weight and not to include bullet sorting in different dimensions or weight...annealing...neck brushing?

'bullet' would include everything you mentioned in bullet quality; annealing and neck brushing would come under the heading of 'neck tension'.

 

[243Mendoza]

Maybe the question "I'm learning to reload for optimal accuracy from my rifle, what steps should I perfect first?"

Yes, a better crafted question!

 

[garandman]

wondering how you would rank the importance (1,2,3, etc) of the following items to accuracy at 1000yd:

I'm NO ballistician but...from my loading experience... amd my max testing thus far is 700 yd.

# 0: wind. You don't read wind well, yer screwt. Your best bullet is gonna be a miss / points down.
# 1. Bullet profile / weight / BC , given the twist rate of the bbl
2. Powder charge - determines speed of the bullet, that needs to synch up with the harmonics of the bbl
3. Powder - could be #2b, but I'll make it # 3 here
4. Bullet Seating depth - its sorta my final step of accuracy maximization, but hard to say exactly how it coincides with 1-3. above. Really, 1-4 could all be of equal importance, possibly,
5. Neck tension - I have truly limited experience playing with it, mostly just seat of the pants "feel". Haven't measured / tested it. But I beleive its def a factor in accuracy. I dunno how much.
6. Primer. I've tested match vs, "standard" primers and experienced little effect. But using match primers makes me feel like a marksman / sniper.

All of this has gotten me to sub half moa accuracy at 100 yd and well under moa acuracy to 700 yds. My game is shooting steel at distance, so no one hoofing it down range with a micrometer.

I've never fooled with primer seating depth, other than the random way my primer seating varies and I see little if any effect.

Never played with neck turning, case volume, , case weight, brass varieties, etc. All that is prolly where I'd need to go to get tighter groups than my current present 0.30 - 0.45 moa presently.

OP: Great question.

ALL : See disclaimer below.

 

[JEFFPPC]

You missed #1 hands down....the barrel. Then the bullet and after that pick em.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Controversial opinion: I totally disagree on the whole "if you can't read wind it's pointless" comments.

If you can't read wind, you're not going to win nationals, sure. That said, how many times have you seen a newbie get behind a good gun and shoot some competitive scores at a club match?

I let two guys shoot my rifle at the conclusion of the last 1,000 yard match. They had never shot F-Class before, and never shot at 1,000. I told them for the first shot to hold two right (where my last point of aim was), and then proceeded to watch both of them shoot a clean with zero additional coaching after the first round.

I'm not discounting reading wind, but having a "great" gun makes a *huge* difference.

 

[davidjoe]

OP and 243, I’m at 200yds shooting DTAC’s right now. A little more concrete, cut to the chase post, here. I’m shooting what I picked first, before LR F-Class hooked me.



Load 115 DTAC’s in a very heavy rifle with a 7 twist Krieger 5R, this one’s 9 years old. The depth is not particularly sensitive, but a loaded one is pictured.

.243 Win Lapua brass. VV N165.

 

[tom]

Powder the barrel wants
Bullet the barrel wants

^^^tied for number 1.

Tension and primer tied for number 2.

and then just tune the thing!

Tom

 

[garandman]

I'm not discounting reading wind, but having a "great" gun makes a *huge* difference.

You can have a great gun, but if you can't read wind, your bullets gonna get blown all over the place.

Just last Saturday, I was smacking 6" steel at 684 yards with regularity to the point of being boring. 85.5 gr 224V out of a bolt gun.

Then all of a sudden I couldn't hit anything. Totally baffled. Miss. Miss. Miss. Then I looked at the wind flags.... they were dead limp before, now suddenly dancing like Barishnikov. While I usually give the narest flag the greatest consideration, here it was the furthest flag that gave the right dope. Ignore the wnd, read the wrong flag, get ready to miss. Alot. (Ask me how I know ) This is an under half minute gun.

Read my wind and dialed it right back in and it got boring again.

I wasn't competing for natl championships.

I'm not discounting a great gun. Yes you gotta have a capable gun. But a capable gun will miss just as much as a scud launcher if you got any wind. Where I shoot, there is *always* wind.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

You can have a great gun, but if you can't read wind, your bullets gonna get blown all over the place.

Just last Saturday, I was smacking 6" steel at 684 yards with regularity to the point of being boring. 85.5 gr 224V out of a bolt gun.

Then all of a sudden I couldn't hit anything. Totally baffled. Miss. Miss. Miss. Then I looked at the wind flags.... they were dead limp before, now suddenly dancing like Barishnikov. While I usually give the narest flag the greatest consideration, here it was the furthest flag that gave the right dope. Ignore the wnd, read the wrong flag, get ready to miss. Alot. (Ask me how I know ) This is an under half minute gun.

Read my wind and dialed it right back in and it got boring again.

I wasn't competing for natl championships.

I'm not discounting a great gun. Yes you gotta have a capable gun. But a capable gun will miss just as much as a scud launcher if you got any wind. Where I shoot, there is *always* wind.

Shooting steel and scored paper are totally different animals; paper you know exactly where your round landed, steel that's often not the case. You are correct though, if you're literally not paying any attention to wind flags or mirage, and just blindly holding center, you are going to pay for it when you miss a 10mph shift.

That said, most competitors have seen what I'm talking about. It's not uncommon at all to see newbies coming out, getting behind guns that are prepped by known good shooters, and putting up scores that would surprise you.

I'm not saying wind reading doesn't matter, I'm just saying the gun makes a huge difference, more than internet anecdotes would sometimes have you believe.

 

[garandman]

Shooting steel and scored paper are totally different animals; paper you know exactly where your round landed, steel that's often not the case. You are correct though, if you're literally not paying any attention to wind flags or mirage, and just blindly holding center, you are going to pay for it when you miss a 10mph shift.

That said, most competitors have seen what I'm talking about. It's not uncommon at all to see newbies coming out, getting behind guns that are prepped by known good shooters, and putting up scores that would surprise you.

I'm not saying wind reading doesn't matter, I'm just saying the gun makes a huge difference, more than internet anecdotes would sometimes have you believe.

Out to 700, I can almost always see my steel hits, unless they haven't been painted recently. If they haven't, I pay attention to how the steel moves and that gives me a pretty good idea of where my hit was. Big movement straight back and swinging wildly is a low center hit. Movement left first is a left hit, right, a right hit. Minimal movement - high center hit. Paper is a tiny hole. Steel is a huge paint splash. Or a unique response to hit. I love shooting steel.

And yes its both / and. If you got a crappy gun, reading the wind is irrelevant, as its shotgun pattern is a guessing game.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

1K BR is a tuning match.

 

[Fuj]

A trued action gets laid on the work bench first, then.....

 

[Hengehold]

wondering how you would rank the importance (1,2,3, etc) of the following items to accuracy at 1000yd:

powder
powder charge
primer
primer seating depth
bullet
bullet seating depth
neck tension
brass
case weight
case volume
neck turning

with regards to powder and charge weight, I have had tough to tune barrels that would not group well until I tried a powder with a different burn rate. By contrast, I have had good shooting barrels that seemed to shoot well regardless of what I put in them (powder/powder charge).

I have been shooting palma and NRA highpower rifle competitively for almost 20 years. At 1k the X-ring is 1 MOA so sub-MOA groups is the goal. I have systematically removed brass/ammo prep steps over the years to see if I noticed a difference in performance. Based on these experiences, I would place your list in the following order.

1. Powder charge (consistency)
2. Powder (using a powder type that is able to hit a node in the barrel easily)
3. Neck tension consistency (this is improved by neck turning)
4. Bullet quality

The rest of the items you listed I have tested in my reloading regimen and do not find them to result in a significant improvement in group size.

hope this helps.

-Trevor

 

[searcher]

My 50 years of reloading for sport and matches says I'd place in this order:
powder (tie with bullet) Some barrels just don't like certain bullets
bullet (tie with powder) Some barrels just don't like certain powders with a given bullet
seating depth - can make for HUGE differences to a bullet and powder your tube favors - or not
neck turning (tension should go here - but one needs to turn necks to get consistent release)
neck tension
primer (most tend to develop a spread of only 25 -30 fps from brand to brand - tweak powder level
case volume
brass (low budget brass can shoot as good as top notch brass if prepped & internal volume spread is narrow)
primer seating depth (flash hole uniformity also affects minute velocity deviation in my experience)
case weight (this is usually synonymous with internal volume - but not always. Liquid fill tells all.

While I agree with others that score results attained from good wind reading and such will often trump raw accuracy, it is the accurate round shot by a competent shooter that will win on a calm day. Good shooters can be poor re-loaders on windy days.

 

[Dave M.]

Post #33 and 40 are the best answers...they follow my philosophy so I guess I'm biased
I have to ask how the opening posters list is made to include primer seating depth/case volume/case weight and not to include bullet sorting in different dimensions or weight...annealing...neck brushing?

Most of the items the OP lists you could ignore and still compete very well. I just shot 596/600-31X at our 600 yard state championship and took third place; and I’ve NEVER measured primer seating depth on a single piece of brass in my ENTIRE LIFE. LOL.