If you go back to the old days in short range group (I have no experience in score.) the common practice was to clean after every match, which would typically, but not always, involve less than ten shots. Typically these cleanings would include the use of a bronze brush. Cleaning that often, right after the rifle has been fired. works, but even with that, back when Tony Boyer was shooting T he said that he used IOSSO for every cleaning, just to make sure that he did not have a carbon issue. Before I had a bore scope pretty much all of my 6PPC shooting was with 133 and I cleaned at the range with no more than 25 shots since the last cleaning. I did a lot of brushing with bronze brushes. My solvent was, and still is, Butche's. When I finally got access to a bore scope, I did not see any evidence of cleaning issues. On the other hand, many shooters do not clean that often, nor do they clean immediately after shooting. These are the guys that typically eventually end up with cleaning related accuracy problems that may require the use of something different to solve. Different powders can vary in how difficult cleaning after their use can be. Some, like 133 are relatively clean, while other can be a real nightmare. One reason that I have explored many different cleaning products is so that I can help people that I know solve cleaning problems, that I typically do not have, because I clean more often, and apparently more thoroughly than than they have.
Thanks for your insight. I highly respect your opinion. You helped me sort out beam balance problem a few years back. Been working great ever since - thanks a bunch.
Like most in my early days in the 60's I used Hoppe's 9 with a bronze brush but, in those days, I won't characterize my shooting as "precision shooting." In my world 1 moa was the gold standard.
As my shooting and hunting started to evolve into the demands of more precision shooting and reading gun magazines of how inadequate Hoppe 9's was, I switched to Shooter's Choice with a bronze brush sometime in the 80's. I was completely satisfied with the results. Never had a clean barrel flyer or need to put a few rounds done the bore to re-establish point of impact. Keep in mind, I am not a bench rest shooter or competitor - just a varmint hunter but that does require a certain level of precision, typically for me, in the 1/2 to 5/8" moa range or there abouts.
When my wife got sick in 2021, I had to search for an odorless solvent because the ammonia odor in Shooter's Choice bothered her. I did an extensive search and talked to several shooters then choose Bore Tech's two-part system, C4 and Cu+2. I choose the 2-part system because I strongly believe in using a bronze brush which was compatible with C4 (for carbon). Like everyone else, I believed that removing as much copper as possible was required thus the use of Cu+2 with a nylon brush.
Strangely, I started developing clean barrel flyers. I could accept that, but I could not accept having to put several rounds done the bore to re-establish desired point of impact. After much experimentation and associated anguished, I traced the problem to Cu+2. It sure did a great job of removing copper.
So, I stopped using Cu+2 and just used the C4. It took a few range sessions, but all my rifles settled down and I was back to normal, no clean barrel flyer, no need to condition the bore with several shots to re-established desired point of impact. That was about 2 years ago now. Since then, all has been fine shooting wise. I suspect but can't confirm, that C4 and Shooter's Choice function similarly in that they do a good job of carbon with a bronze brush but are weak on copper. When I ran out C4, I used Hoppe's 9 for a while and the results were the same as the other two solvent.
I am not making any pronouncements or citing any revolutionary discoveries, only reporting what I experienced. I just can't help wondering if too much is being made about cleaning a rifle - I just don't believe that it's all that complicated if you observe a few basic common-sense practices like using a high-quality rod, a bore guide, a properly size bronze brush, and cleaning on a regularly basis.
I am not against bore scopes as a valuable diagnostic tool. If cleaning to a specific bore scope image produces the results one desires, then great. Personally, I use the target as my cleaning standard. The only time in my many years of shooting did I trace a performance problem to cleaning was when I went started aggressive copper removing. But here again, I am not in the ultra-precision game of competitive bench rest shooting.
