Best solvent for Varget?

[Clancy]

I love how everyone says “do you own a borescope” like they’re still $700.

You can get a bore scope cheaper than a pound of varget now, sadly.

 

[jelenko]

Yeah you like to throw that one around in the lapping post also. Need to get some new ones and watch who you toss them at as some of use know what we know.

Of course, if your cleaning is working for you, that's that.
But, if you don't own/use a borescope, you don't know what's going on in the bore with whatever cleaning you're doing.

 

[jelenko]

I love how everyone says “do you own a borescope” like they’re still $700.

You can get a bore scope cheaper than a pound of varget now, sadly.

Cheaper than 1 brick of BR4's.

 

[SGT. Slaughter]

Anytime you can shoot 50lbs of varget powder and get over 9000 rds of 22-250 through a barrel and get no carbon fouling and no throat erosion maybe you should buy a lottery ticket just 1.

 

[K22]

No, apparently not. Nothing is a problem until it's a problem, is it?

There is no sense in getting upset about this stuff because there are so many opinions and different experiences. I don't think anyone has the absolute "right" answer to the cleaning issue maybe because there isn't just one right answer. I find these cleaning posts amusing since they always generated heated debates.

Use a procedure / solvent that produces the results you need for your shooting discipline. It's really that simple. I use performance on target as my standard. If others use bore scope image as their standard and it works for them, then good for them.

I am a results-oriented guy. If cow pee produced superior results, then I'd use it. I've tried several different solvents and methods. In my experience, they all work about the same for me when using a bronze brush. The only method that gave me problems was aggressive copper removing solvents, namely Cu+2. It caused clean barrel flyers, and it took several shots to re-establish desired point of impact. I learned that by experience, albeit an unpleasant experience.

This old dog has learned a few new tricks on the internet and in this forum but most of the advances I have made in my shooting has been through years of experience, trying different things and finding things that works for me.

 

[Shooter13]

Anytime you can shoot 50lbs of varget powder and get over 9000 rds of 22-250 through a barrel and get no carbon fouling and no throat erosion maybe you should buy a lottery ticket just 1.

I truly doubt he meant ONE barrel, just the powder and caliber.

 

[Fuj]

What's your bore look like after that? Any etching?

It's citrus based and non corrosive. Bore's are fine on multiple
barrels, after 4 years, since starting using it. Only used it on my
stainless match barrels, and never tried on a typical moly barrel.

I had some gifted brass with hard carbon on the necks that
tumbling did'nt clean up. This stuff cleaned the necks up in
short order with just wiping with a shop towel. Gallon of Piston
Kleen will run you about $50 bucks nowadays. Cheap if you
consider adding up smaller bottles of cleaners.

 

[Shooter13]

It's citrus based and non corrosive. Bore's are fine on multiple
barrels, after 4 years, since starting using it. Only used it on my
stainless match barrels, and never tried on a typical moly barrel.

I had some gifted brass with hard carbon on the necks that
tumbling did'nt clean up. This stuff cleaned the necks up in
short order with just wiping with a shop towel. Gallon of Piston
Kleen will run you about $50 bucks nowadays. Cheap if you
consider adding up smaller bottles of cleaners.

Fuj is this the stuff you are talking about? https://www.amazon.com/Piston-Kleen...-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

[Shifty6br]

As of late I have been using the Thorro Clean system for the real nasty, wish I hadn't let it go so long stuff.

 

[Rob01]

Of course, if your cleaning is working for you, that's that.
But, if you don't own/use a borescope, you don't know what's going on in the bore with whatever cleaning you're doing.

How did we ever clean rifles and shoot accurately for decades without cheap electronic bore scopes? Hmm lol

 

[Bill K]

Bore scopes are fun to play with and they can show you things, But how many have also seen or read how a bore that looks like hell, shoot super well and nice tight groups.
Only the rifle/bore and your shooting will tell you if your loads, etc. are up to par and doing what you want on grouping on targets or killing game.

 

[K22]

How did we ever clean rifles and shoot accurately for decades without cheap electronic bore scopes? Hmm lol

I wonder too since I am a dinosaur from another age and witnessed some extremely good shooting in the old days by precision target shooters using Hoppe's 9, a bronze brush, and cleaning on a regular cycle. Maybe global warming has changed that simple effective cleaning method that worked in the old days.

When I read these posts about cleaning, I would like to see the OP state whether there is a performance problem and thus the OP is seeking some remedy, not because the bore looks "dirty" under a bore scope. How does the rifle shoot?

I believe the reason there is so much controversy over this issue is that no one has found a single silver bullet, but some, like me, have found their silver bullet that works for them. Also, the issue has been complicated because today, the image of the bore under a scope has become one of the criteria, if not the main criteria to measure cleaning effectiveness rather than performance on target.

 

[K22]

Bore scopes are fun to play with and they can show you things, But how many have also seen or read how a bore that looks like hell, shoot super well and nice tight groups.
Only the rifle/bore and your shooting will tell you if your loads, etc. are up to par and doing what you want on grouping on targets or killing game.

I admire your concept of "fun". I have another take on them, they create "stomach acid".

I am not saying they don't have some value especially as a diagnostic tool. Even an old dinosaur like me had my smith look down the bore with a scope several years ago when my 22 250 groups began opening up. He confirmed the extensive "fire cracking" and throat erosion. But the target told me that too. For the round count on that barrel, it was kind of predictable. Still, it was nice to confirm it with objective evidence seeing the damage.

But I agree with your other remarks - Savage bores are a good example on ugly bores that shoot great.

 

[BoydAllen]

I wonder too since I am a dinosaur from another age and witnessed some extremely good shooting in the old days by precision target shooters using Hoppe's 9, a bronze brush, and cleaning on a regular cycle. Maybe global warming has changed that simple effective cleaning method that worked in the old days.

When I read these posts about cleaning, I would like to see the OP state whether there is a performance problem and thus the OP is seeking some remedy, not because the bore looks "dirty" under a bore scope. How does the rifle shoot?

I believe the reason there is so much controversy over this issue is that no one has found a single silver bullet, but some, like me, have found their silver bullet that works for them. Also, the issue has been complicated because today, the image of the bore under a scope has become one of the criteria, if not the main criteria to measure cleaning effectiveness rather than performance on target.

If you go back to the old days in short range group (I have no experience in score.) the common practice was to clean after every match, which would typically, but not always, involve less than ten shots. Typically these cleanings would include the use of a bronze brush. Cleaning that often, right after the rifle has been fired. works, but even with that, back when Tony Boyer was shooting T he said that he used IOSSO for every cleaning, just to make sure that he did not have a carbon issue. Before I had a bore scope pretty much all of my 6PPC shooting was with 133 and I cleaned at the range with no more than 25 shots since the last cleaning. I did a lot of brushing with bronze brushes. My solvent was, and still is, Butch's. When I finally got access to a bore scope, I did not see any evidence of cleaning issues. On the other hand, many shooters do not clean that often, nor do they clean immediately after shooting. These are the guys that typically eventually end up with cleaning related accuracy problems that may require the use of something different to solve. Different powders can vary in how difficult cleaning after their use can be. Some, like 133 are relatively clean, while other can be a real nightmare. One reason that I have explored many different cleaning products is so that I can help people that I know solve cleaning problems, that I typically do not have, because I clean more often, and apparently more thoroughly than than they have.

 

[DShortt]

It's citrus based and non corrosive. Bore's are fine on multiple
barrels, after 4 years, since starting using it. Only used it on my
stainless match barrels, and never tried on a typical moly barrel.

I had some gifted brass with hard carbon on the necks that
tumbling did'nt clean up. This stuff cleaned the necks up in
short order with just wiping with a shop towel. Gallon of Piston
Kleen will run you about $50 bucks nowadays. Cheap if you
consider adding up smaller bottles of cleaners.

I've a couple of sewer pipe take off barrels that have a whole bunch of carbon in them. I'll check into this when time allows. They are chrome-moly factory barrels so that may or may not show a different result. Either way it still should get the carbon out I should think.

Yes, these barrels are really bad and it's an extreme example. But if the product truly works it should work every time IMHO. If there's something out there that really does remove hard carbon quickly and reliably without metal etching it would be great to know about. I freely admit I'm skeptical but open minded to testing new things.

 

[Fuj]

Fuj is this the stuff you are talking about? https://www.amazon.com/Piston-Kleen...-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

Yes Sir !!

 

[Shooter13]

Yes Sir !!

Thank you!

 

[kindabitey]

Maybe I’m a wierdo, but I usually remove the barrel to clean. A couple of times I’ve had quite a bit of debris in the breech area after a match, so I disassemble everything in order to get a good cleaning. I’ll put a plug in the muzzle and fill the bore with Boretech Eliminator and let it sit for anywhere between 2 to 24 hours. After that, a few strokes with a brush followed by patches until they come out clean. Seems to work pretty well for any powders including Varget. And, yes, I check it with a borescope. Usually clean every 200-250 rounds.

 

[JEFFPPC]

At home: Dawn and H20 followed by Hoppes/ Kroil followed by Iosso then H/K then a ck with Sweets over night. A check with the scope then a repeat of Iooso if needed followed once again with H/K. During a match H/K between every relay. Pretty much leave them sit after cleaning at home with H/K until next weekends match. I seldom brush and if so only out. Never back across the crown. I view nylon brushes only good foor the inside of case necks. End result is there is no one way, what ever works for you. I think there is a lot of undercleaning but probably little over cleaning unless your on the bronze brush like a buck saw banging the rod off the lands, I cringe.

 

[Forum Boss]

I shoot a 6BR and 6BRDX (similar to Dasher) with Varget.

After 50-60 round match, while barrel STILL warm, I put 5-6 soaking wet patches with a standard liquid cleaner through the bore.

Then I apply WipeOut foam in the bore. I wait 15 minutes then apply WipeOut foam a second time.

I plug muzzle and chamber, then put the rifle in a case, drive home and patch out 4-5 hours later. Generally very, very minimal brushing is needed at that time.

I think, with a good custom barrel, most guys can get very satisfactory results and save tons of time if you start at the range. Attack that carbon early before it hardens.