Which rifle bore cleaning solvent is best based on borescope inspection?

[ShootDots]

I learned something here! I learned that everyone has their own favorite cleaner(s) / methodology! HMMM maybe I didn't learn anything after all! LOL!!!

 

[rvn1968]

It has been said by others,but,Never drag anything back except an empty rod..That crown is precious. Tom

 

[butchlambert]

Hasn't anyone heard of synthetic jags?

 

[johara1]

I turn mine down under the rod size so it doesn't mean a rats rear end. I take the patch off at the muzzle,i also leave the brake on till i'm done cleaning. I use a SS. Ivy rod and clean it every pass........ and use Wart Hog so there are not too many passes........ jim

 

[butchlambert]

Jim and I use different cleaners, but we agree on the cleaning rods.

 

[chino1969]

Cassidy,
I let a borescope tell me when the barrel is clean, when I still have copper, if there is a carbon ring, etc. It is a valuable tool that can tell plenty about the effectiveness of your cleaning technique and cleaners. I use various cleaners, depending on what I am going after and use the bore scope to tell me whether my efforts have been successful or whether I need to do more work.

 

[dragman]

Just my .02
I have a cleaning method I like and works. I bore scope my dirty barrel clean it and then look again. I shoot it then look again. once I am sure that, that cleaning method works for that barrel. I do the same thing over and over with no change.

 

[kelbro]

They were giving away some caliber-specific cleaning swabs at the Bergers that worked pretty good. Looked like a tampax, minus the string.

 

[Phil3]

I sure would like to know what people do for cleaning if they shoot a lot of rounds at the range. Do I need to clean the bore after 150 rounds fired out of a 223 AR-15 and bolt action? Just how does one know the barrel needs cleaning, say when doing load development? If the accuracy starts to fall off, is it a dirty barrel, the load, the shooter, or...?

Phil

 

[jonbearman]

Most fellas clean as soon as accuracy suffers and you will know as groups go to heck in a hurry.Personally I clean after 40 rounds if at a local range.

 

[rvn1968]

To "Phil3",load development gets tricky.I would clean after every round or two.The important thing is consistency.Whatever method you choose,it has to remain the same for every test.Good luck,Tom.

 

[mikecr]

To "Phil3",load development gets tricky.I would clean after every round or two.The important thing is consistency.Whatever method you choose,it has to remain the same for every test.Good luck,Tom.

This is the very worst thing to do for load development, unless it's clean-cold-bore load development

 

[Jet]

I sure would like to know what people do for cleaning if they shoot a lot of rounds at the range. Do I need to clean the bore after 150 rounds fired out of a 223 AR-15 and bolt action? Just how does one know the barrel needs cleaning, say when doing load development? If the accuracy starts to fall off, is it a dirty barrel, the load, the shooter, or...?

Phil

Phil

I'm a weapons instructor by trade for the USAF and our courses of fire for the M4 and AR platforms (GAU, GUU, etc) run between 196 to 240 rounds. We do not see any appreciable loss in accuracy from the first to the last shot.

From personal experience, I'll tell you that it really depends on what your accuracy goals are for each firearm and the type of shooting you do (BR, 3 gun, just plinking for fun, etc) and once you know that let your results determine how often you clean. Another factor (and I am certain you know this) is if you use the AR or other weapon in a self defense role, keep it clean with the right amount of lubricant on the internals.

 

[Heavy barrel]

To "Phil3",load development gets tricky.I would clean after every round or two.The important thing is consistency.Whatever method you choose,it has to remain the same for every test.Good luck,Tom.

Are you saying to clean every 1-2 shots or every 1-2 rounds (meaning strings) of 10-20?

 

[Phil3]

Most fellas clean as soon as accuracy suffers and you will know as groups go to heck in a hurry.Personally I clean after 40 rounds if at a local range.

Would you then say that the accuracy fall off is sudden, dramatic, and not easily missed? Or is it more of a gradual thing? I have shot 125+ rounds out of the Krieger barrel on my AR-15 without cleaning and it doesn't seem to change much in accuracy. I am a little worried about this as I do load development. I don't want a dirty barrel to screw up my results, but also do not want to excessively clean the barrel and risk harming it.

Phil

 

[BoydAllen]

I think that if you are shooting a high quality lapped barrel in a rifle that is not capable of benchrest accuracy, and the powder does not create an unusual amount of fouling, that you can probably shoot a lot more rounds before you see obvious signs of a decrease in accuracy, than would be the case with a well tuned, full house benchrest rig, shot over flags, on a good day. Also, the ratio of bore diameter to case capacity, and velocity are factors, the latter being a consideration for jacket fouling. I would also say that in my experience higher pressure loads generally burn cleaner, and may be and advantage in that respect as long as the rate of fire does not create a barrel heat issue, and jacket fouling is not exacerbated by the velocity. Typically, I have confidence that any of my current 6ppc barrels can easily go 30 shots with no accuracy fall off, and at that point, if I am shooting 133, I can clean the barrel with something like BBS and a few short stroked patches, and go back to shooting without brushing (bronze). After doing that once or twice, I will do a more complete cleaning. Other powders do not allow so little cleaning, and for those I brush every time. Recently, I have tried Patch Out in combination with Accelerator, wetting the bore with a couple of loose patches, and then applying both to a relatively soft nylon bore brush, and cycling it up and down the bore (I can easily reverse it in the muzzle.) slowly (2-3 seconds per cycle) 15-30 cycles, depending on the round count. letting it sit for 15 minutes, and then patching it out, drying the chamber and muzzle ( and putting a thin film of greas on the backs of the lugs, and more on the cocking cam). This seems to be an easy way to clean that works within the time frame that I require, and seems to pose a minimum of risk to the barrel. I use a bore guide of the highest quality, that has an additional tube that stays on the rod that extends as far forward as it can without interfering with either brush or jag.

 

[WyoWindage]

Have been using GM Top End cleaner which is no longer available, as mentioned. There may be a substitute for that product? It stinks and I catch heck when I come into the house with some on my hands/clothes. I may go to Hoppes #9, just for that reason. I use Sweets also, for copper. What I do different, or haven't seen mentioned, is use Paper Towels, good grade like Viva. Cut a one inch slice off, sharp butcher knife or electric knife (messier). Pull a piece off, how much by experiment, juice it or dry, run it thru and walla. Works about just as good as real patches (not quite as thick) and a lot less bucks. It may have some drawbacks? Maybe more abrasive, don't know. Hate to put maggies bloomers out of business, but try it. Ron.

 

[Phil3]

I think that if you are shooting a high quality lapped barrel in a rifle that is not capable of benchrest accuracy, and the powder does not create an unusual amount of fouling, that you can probably shoot a lot more rounds before you see obvious signs of a decrease in accuracy, than would be the case with a well tuned, full house benchrest rig, shot over flags, on a good day. Also, the ratio of bore diameter to case capacity, and velocity are factors, the latter being a consideration for jacket fouling. I would also say that in my experience higher pressure loads generally burn cleaner, and may be and advantage in that respect as long as the rate of fire does not create a barrel heat issue, and jacket fouling is not exacerbated by the velocity. Typically, I have confidence that any of my current 6ppc barrels can easily go 30 shots with no accuracy fall off, and at that point, if I am shooting 133, I can clean the barrel with something like BBS and a few short stroked patches, and go back to shooting without brushing (bronze). After doing that once or twice, I will do a more complete cleaning. Other powders do not allow so little cleaning, and for those I brush every time. Recently, I have tried Patch Out in combination with Accelerator, wetting the bore with a couple of loose patches, and then applying both to a relatively soft nylon bore brush, and cycling it up and down the bore (I can easily reverse it in the muzzle.) slowly (2-3 seconds per cycle) 15-30 cycles, depending on the round count. letting it sit for 15 minutes, and then patching it out, drying the chamber and muzzle ( and putting a thin film of greas on the backs of the lugs, and more on the cocking cam). This seems to be an easy way to clean that works within the time frame that I require, and seems to pose a minimum of risk to the barrel. I use a bore guide of the highest quality, that has an additional tube that stays on the rod that extends as far forward as it can without interfering with either brush or jag.

I am also concerned that with a new factory barrel, it may foul very fast. Shooting a few shots and waiting 15 minutes or more for the chemicals to work, before shooting another few could make for a very long day!

Curious comment on bore to powder ratio. Do you think the 223 Remington has more of propensity to foul than other rounds? Copper or carbon?

Phil

 

[BoydAllen]

Factory barrels are the best argument for lapped barrels, and sometimes people go the wrong way in their attempts to manage them. Because they are not the same, a different approach is sometimes needed. By this I mean that a few shots may be required to get a factory barrel to settle down to a consistent bore condition. I once met a fellow that had a stainless Ruger 77 in .270. He seemed to be a meticulous sort and had been shooting and cleaning trying to get the rifle to shoot. (for the better part of a year) I told him that he needed to keep on shooting beyond the 3-4 shots that he had been because I have seen factory barrels that took as much as 6-7 to settle in. We were at the range at the time, and he tried it. Long story shorter, the groups became very acceptable, and his problem was solved. Of course he was pleased that such a simple remedy had worked so well. I told him that what he needed to do was to check his action, and scope screws at the beginning of the season (synthetic stock), foul the barrel, check his scope settings, and not clean till the season was over, when he should clean, oil and put away for next year. I think that he will. I should add that I am pretty sure that the total number of rounds per season would be well under 30, so I was not suggesting that he neglect his rifle.

As to the .223, no they are not a problem as far as fouling goes. If you are having one, it is not a cartridge selection issue.

 

[johara1]

I think the way i see it your barrel will answer your your question. i get my answer with the first group if the first shot fouler goes in the group,i clean each relay. If it doesn't and it shoots after the first group and will continue to do so,then it gets shot dirty. Barrels are like a kid it will let you know...... jim