" 8" to 7" twisters are best as people-destroyers with 69 to 77 grain bullets". WOW! I'll bet the anti-gun crowd will be happy to hear those "words of wisdom". I'll also be sure to tell my son he better stop using the 80 gr. Sierra MatchKings in his F-Class 223 rifle that recently won the F-TR 600 yd. Orange Blossom Regional Match at Port Malabar R&P Club, just outside Melbourne Florida. ;D
Best factory Rifle
- Thread starter shaner72
- Start date
I never tried my Bushmaster at 1000 yards only 100 yards working on a load. A nice wee accurate semi auto with the load I developed I think it had a twenty inch 1:7 barrel. Traded the bushmaster Predator for a new Sako TRG 22. Shoots well most Saturdays and Sundays never tried further than 1000 yards to date. http://www.gunslinger.net.nz is a long range shoot in New Zealand looks fun. I did feel the .223 was a bit light hunting in the Southern Alps new 7 mm WSM Browning Mountain Ti with 160 gr Nosler Accubonds homeloads does the job just fine. 
Cliffy your ignorance knows no bounds. Do you even own an AR rifle. Maybe you should go and watch a match called service rifle palma and see real shooters with AR rifle hammering the X ring out of a target at 1000 yards with open sites.
It seems your an expert on alot of things you know nothing about. Stay in your slow twist light bullet world so none of the bullets the rest of us use get wasted going down your barrels.
It seems your an expert on alot of things you know nothing about. Stay in your slow twist light bullet world so none of the bullets the rest of us use get wasted going down your barrels.
NZTight, my observations over the past few years ties in with your report on the BushMaster. In Canada, those who buy a Bushy or Rock River try it for a year in F Class out to 1000 yards and then trade it. They have them stoked to max pressure, primers flat as a pancake, primers rupturing during a rain with wet cases. The problem is they have to compete shoulder-to-shoulder with custom bolt actions with 30 inch barrels which puts them at a disadvantage.
As an RSO, I keep a cheap 3-piece cleaning rod in my kit to poke out the stuck .223 cases along the line because of the max pressures these guys want to work at. This happens to bolts as well as AR15s I might add.
My hat goes off to the U.S. shooters competing in specialized AR15 matches at Camp Perry. Their skill at 1000 yards is a testament to their dedication.
As an RSO, I keep a cheap 3-piece cleaning rod in my kit to poke out the stuck .223 cases along the line because of the max pressures these guys want to work at. This happens to bolts as well as AR15s I might add.
My hat goes off to the U.S. shooters competing in specialized AR15 matches at Camp Perry. Their skill at 1000 yards is a testament to their dedication.
Regarding the 223 Bushmaster Predator it is a very accurate rifle with ammo it likes, given the surprise we got at 100 yards nothing an expert with a tuned custom AR could do would surprise me now. I have only owned one and cant see me with an other. An amazing wee rifle that does the business as quick as you can aim straight.
I give my vote for "best factory rifle" to the Cooper. They are tremendous rifles of the highest quality. That being said, they are a little expensive in my opinion so if cost is a factor there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Savage so many have voted for. Likewise, don't forge about the Weatherby Vanguard. My son has a Vanguard that gives my Cooper a run for it's money in the accuracy department (we're talking well under 1 MOA for both rifles) and it's cheaper than most Savages (though not made in the USA). So...there's some food for thought. Hope that helps.
Actually Savage is not the only factory rifle to be button rifled both Mossberg and Marlin Bolt actions are botton rifled aswell as the Remington 770. As far as the two you mentioned it would be the Tikka. The Tikka's are just as accurate as anyother rifle out there and in my opinion have a better action. Just my .02
Alf.1 said:
Oh the once mighty Remington's have slipped greatly over the past few years. That is why Savage is the No. 1 selling rifle in the US these days. What was once is not anymore. Just to set the record straight
McKinneyMike said:Alf.1 said:
Oh the once mighty Remington's have slipped greatly over the past few years. That is why Savage is the No. 1 selling rifle in the US these days. What was once is not anymore. Just to set the record straight
McKinneyMike
Where did you get you info I just check the ATF web site and in 2008 which is the latest data remington still outsold savage by about 54,000 rifles.
Well that I was told by some of the folks at the SHOT Show from Savage. Are those ATF numbers for new gun sales only? 2008 was a couple years ago now too Maybe it was world wide, but I was told this by a rep from Savage. It is no secret that the Remington's quality has seriously slipped since they were bought out by Cerberus Capital Management. I don't think there is much debate about that anymore. Sure the Remington's can be made to shoot well, but the out of the box quality is not what it once was by a good stretch. It is not like it once was, is all that I am saying in summation.
Maybe it was world wide, but I was told this by a rep from Savage. It is no secret that the Remington's quality has seriously slipped since they were bought out by Cerberus Capital Management. I don't think there is much debate about that anymore. Sure the Remington's can be made to shoot well, but the out of the box quality is not what it once was by a good stretch. It is not like it once was, is all that I am saying in summation.Personally I have not seen the quality issues that everyone reports. Most factory rifles that I have fired have all shot around MOA or better. I think it is alot of Ford VS Chevy. Savage makes a good rifle but so does Ruger, Remington, and Tikka. You are going to get a bad rifle from every manufacturer it just happens. I personally had a Savage 17 hmr that would not shoot under 1.5 at 100 for nothing. To me the best factory rifle is the one that fits you best and you have confidence in. If it is a Savage good if it is a Remington or something else that ok too.
I agree with you. I am trying to track down the source of the information that I was given from Savage. I am hopeful to locate the source soon. I don't want to spread untruths. I have the persons name somewhere around here and will try to contact him for a reaffirmation on what I was told.
Good guns are the accurate ones. That is all that matters in the end.
Good guns are the accurate ones. That is all that matters in the end.
Only thing I can contribute is, back in the 70's/80's you could not have GIVEN me a Savage, but these days you couldn't give me a Remmy, and I'll forever be sorry I sold my old mid-70's mfg date custom shop 700 BDL 22-250 bull w/factory Jewell. Savage REALLY turned things around in the 90's.
The only thing constant is change.
The only thing constant is change.
I mispoke earlier it was the # of fire arms manufactured not sold. The data was sorted by Manufacturing Plant. In 2008 Remingtons production at the Ilion plant was 160,000 rifle. This number did not include the productions of the Kentucky Manufacturing plant which if my research is right would be the 597 and the 770 lines. It would also not include the R-15. So the 160,000 would just be the 700, 40X and maybe the 750 and the 7600. Savage total production was only 116,000 for 2008. I know that production does not equal sales but if the distributers where holding 60,000 rifles then they would not order anymore rifles from the factory. Inventory ties up cash and is not good for the bottom line or the investors. I would suspect that if Remington was having trouble moving rifles you would see a lot more repates. Having said that Remington does offer rebates but for the mostly it was for the SPS Models not for the higher end rifles.
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