urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Will do!
Benchrest stock makers
- Thread starter Sleepyhollow
- Start date
Will do!
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
My best friend growing up worked for Scoville for I think 7 or 8 years building stocks in Michigan before he moved to Canada. I have seen that whole process on what they did to build those. I have seen the entire process of Roy Hunter building his stocks also. I tried to get my friend to stay in the stock business and expand into long range. I was also seriously considering taking over Roys stock building operation. Neither of those stocks are made on a duplicator or a cnc router. There is considerable skill and time involved in making stocks like that. Not to mention the tooling costs and finding sources for the appropriate wood. Its not just any pretty wood. It has to be light for the LV stocks and be dried properly. When you look at what those guys got for a finished stock, theres no way in hell a guy is quitting his day job to get into that business. It was a passion for those guys and they were not having to feed their families on making stocks. McMillan just did a cost analysis on all their stocks. Not all of them went up in price. But mine tripled. Same with most BR stocks. You can find a guy on every corner to chamber a barrel. But try to find a really good stock guy. Why? The truth of it is that when you walk away from that lathe to do a stock, you just cut your pay in half or worse. So, the problem will continue until that changes. You can call around to any of the really good smtihs, the ones doing really good inlets and flawless bedding jobs. If you can even find one that will inlet a flat top stock and do the whole build. Ask them if they will stock your barreled action. I know what they will say.
Bronsin
Silver $$ Contributor
The stock supply is bad enough that I have entertained 2 options. Either buying a used rifle just to get the stock and combining the best pieces and selling the rest, or buying a stock duplicator and making my own based off the 2 good stocks that I have. Everybody and their brother is making chassis for bolt action and PRS style rifles and we can't get anything for less than $1000 and wait a year for it.
Alex is correct,there are guys out there buying blanks and duplicating every true stockmarkets design, but coming up with a design and core that channels wood movements takes experience, building 20 oz. Stocks takes the same, with all curing times and the different procedures everybody complains it's to expensive. That's why you have what you have..
What @urbanrifleman is trying to do with his $399 BR stocks is a step in the right direction. I hope they sell like crazy.
I don't think BR will ever die out, but it's never really been a super popular shooting sport. Many years ago it was Highpower, which was supplanted by its offspring F-Class, and now it's PRS.
To be successful in LRBR, and I expect this is true with SRBR as well, we need help. Much of what we think we know about accuracy and precision is turned on its head when we start to be competitive in BR. The levels of precision and accuracy required are beyond what many even think is possible.
There was a guy who came into the shop the other day who turned his nose up at shooting only at 1000 yds. He that told me his friend had set an unofficial 1000yd record recently--1 5/8" 3-shot group. I pointed out that both the IBS and NBRSA light gun records were under that, and those are 5-shot groups. I didn't tell him that during tuning--when conditions are as good as they can be--I shoot three-shot groups between 1 and 1.5" from time-to-time....and so do all the guys I shoot with. It's too bad we can't shoot our official groups in those conditions.........
To shoot at the required level in BR, not only do you have to be willing to take the time learn how to shoot consistently, tune your loads for the conditions, and read the wind--which is true in any rifle shooting sport; you have to have an expensive custom built rifle, expensive shooting equipment, and expensive loading equipment.
The really isn't an entry level class to allow you to try it out and see if you like it without spending a bunch of money. So guys sometimes show up with what they think is a very accurate rifle to give LRBR a try, wind up at the bottom of the pack, and never come back. The ones that wind up sticking with it have the funds to jump all in when they start.
You can start PRS with a factory rifle and ammo, and while you won't likely be at the top, you can at least have fun and see a path forward. When I stuck my toe in Highpower several years ago and shot a couple matches, I finished mid-pack both matches and I had maybe $1000 into my entire setup. I had started LRBR about a year earlier, but it wasn't until I had invested 5x that much that I stopped finishing last every match. And that was 18 years ago when a new diesel pickup was half of what they are now.
I know some have tried to make an entry level LRBR class, but I don't think they are hugely successful across the country.
When it comes to making a living in the firearms industry, BR won't likely be your bread and butter. It will be handgun shooters and AR shooters and hunters mainly, with competition shooters making up a small part......and BR shooters will be an especially small part.
I don't think BR will ever die out, but it's never really been a super popular shooting sport. Many years ago it was Highpower, which was supplanted by its offspring F-Class, and now it's PRS.
To be successful in LRBR, and I expect this is true with SRBR as well, we need help. Much of what we think we know about accuracy and precision is turned on its head when we start to be competitive in BR. The levels of precision and accuracy required are beyond what many even think is possible.
There was a guy who came into the shop the other day who turned his nose up at shooting only at 1000 yds. He that told me his friend had set an unofficial 1000yd record recently--1 5/8" 3-shot group. I pointed out that both the IBS and NBRSA light gun records were under that, and those are 5-shot groups. I didn't tell him that during tuning--when conditions are as good as they can be--I shoot three-shot groups between 1 and 1.5" from time-to-time....and so do all the guys I shoot with. It's too bad we can't shoot our official groups in those conditions.........
To shoot at the required level in BR, not only do you have to be willing to take the time learn how to shoot consistently, tune your loads for the conditions, and read the wind--which is true in any rifle shooting sport; you have to have an expensive custom built rifle, expensive shooting equipment, and expensive loading equipment.
The really isn't an entry level class to allow you to try it out and see if you like it without spending a bunch of money. So guys sometimes show up with what they think is a very accurate rifle to give LRBR a try, wind up at the bottom of the pack, and never come back. The ones that wind up sticking with it have the funds to jump all in when they start.
You can start PRS with a factory rifle and ammo, and while you won't likely be at the top, you can at least have fun and see a path forward. When I stuck my toe in Highpower several years ago and shot a couple matches, I finished mid-pack both matches and I had maybe $1000 into my entire setup. I had started LRBR about a year earlier, but it wasn't until I had invested 5x that much that I stopped finishing last every match. And that was 18 years ago when a new diesel pickup was half of what they are now.
I know some have tried to make an entry level LRBR class, but I don't think they are hugely successful across the country.
When it comes to making a living in the firearms industry, BR won't likely be your bread and butter. It will be handgun shooters and AR shooters and hunters mainly, with competition shooters making up a small part......and BR shooters will be an especially small part.
JMayo
Silver $$ Contributor
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Yes he did.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
It's funny that so many of the companies that made benchrest are basically abandoning so many aspects of it.
Not just stocks either. Walt Berger must be rolling over in his grave to find out that Berger is turning it's nose up at varmint and bench bullets to make lucrative "ammunition".
Not just stocks either. Walt Berger must be rolling over in his grave to find out that Berger is turning it's nose up at varmint and bench bullets to make lucrative "ammunition".
Last edited:
Nick Caprinolo
Gold $$ Contributor
What you fail to take into consideration is the fact that most of us don't have access to long range shooting. In my area, traveling to a range that is over 300 yards entails at least a 150 mile trip. I like to shoot at least once a week and usually twice a week. To shoot at 600 yards would mean I drove 600 miles a week just going to the range. The vast amount of BR recreation shooters would dearly like to be able to acquire short range socks but they are hardly ever offered, even used. We don't compete, we just love to shoot. More importantly, we vastly outnumber long range shooters. Where did you get that 1500 number?
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Oh I totally agree!!!! I think that was my point.
I was talking about hard core competitors in short range benchrest. It's a very small group.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
I once whiddled a stock up completely by hand for a break barrel rifle. Did a custom thumbhole butt stock with finger grooves (back when thumbhole was a thing) and a forearm with slight beaver tail. When I was done and it was bolted on the rifle, I added things up and found I had nearly 40 hours into the project including sourcing the wood to the final clear coat. There’s no way a guy could make money doing that kind of work by hand.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
The upside to all these shortages is that someone new could take that market they turned their noses up at and fill that demand.
There are so many opportunities.
But like the oil business they always create shortages, wait for the upstarts to invest and then crush them after. Then they buy all their equipment for pennies on the dollar.
There are so many opportunities.
But like the oil business they always create shortages, wait for the upstarts to invest and then crush them after. Then they buy all their equipment for pennies on the dollar.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Seems to me you could easily do that with a chassis design. Just drop the whole "stock" thing altogether.
longbow
Silver $$ Contributor
Tracker Stocks...Doyle Anglin out of Winder ,GA. did/does all the Tracker Stocks for Bill Shehane.He has done five stocks for me so far,excellent the stock needs very little sandind.Will do trigger guard also if specified. He has other patterns also. I'm very happy with the Tracker style.
I bought the last of the Obeche Indian Blanket wood a couple years ago,have enough for a couple more stocks.Its an eye catcher! Heres a Koa wood also.I had this wood for over 20 years stuffed away. 20+ hand rubbed coats.I like to put two coats of Daly's Sea Fin oil on first,a waterproofing oil for Sailboats,etc.Helps bring up the depth of the wood.The last one Ziricote,another wood I stock piled and I'm working on.Drop a PM for Doyles number.Pete
I bought the last of the Obeche Indian Blanket wood a couple years ago,have enough for a couple more stocks.Its an eye catcher! Heres a Koa wood also.I had this wood for over 20 years stuffed away. 20+ hand rubbed coats.I like to put two coats of Daly's Sea Fin oil on first,a waterproofing oil for Sailboats,etc.Helps bring up the depth of the wood.The last one Ziricote,another wood I stock piled and I'm working on.Drop a PM for Doyles number.Pete
Attachments
Last edited:
Back in the 80's we had all aluminum SRBR stocks. I seem to remember they were not competitive and swiftly died out.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
Another problem is the short range BR stocks are completely different than the long range BR stocks and then F-Open is a little different yet. All take a lot of work to build so who does a company decide pander to? Of course it will either be the specific discipline they participate in personally or the most popular discipline to maximize profit. Don’t see too many companies besides McMillan willing to make all styles.
Is it possible to make a stock platform that can do it all? I don’t believe it is. So what is BR doing to bring in new blood? I’ve seen Alex Wheeler building rifles and other shooters doing load development specifically to allow new shooters a taste of the sport without having to spend thousands of dollars on their own gear. If you don’t continue that sort of thing or start a campaign to gain interest in BR then then availability of products will only get worse. Look at the media coverage PRS and F-Class gets to promote their sport. Heck even air rifles do a great job of getting people involved. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a YouTube video or televised show on a full BR shoot so there are a ton of new shooters that don’t even know it exists for the most part.
Is it possible to make a stock platform that can do it all? I don’t believe it is. So what is BR doing to bring in new blood? I’ve seen Alex Wheeler building rifles and other shooters doing load development specifically to allow new shooters a taste of the sport without having to spend thousands of dollars on their own gear. If you don’t continue that sort of thing or start a campaign to gain interest in BR then then availability of products will only get worse. Look at the media coverage PRS and F-Class gets to promote their sport. Heck even air rifles do a great job of getting people involved. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a YouTube video or televised show on a full BR shoot so there are a ton of new shooters that don’t even know it exists for the most part.
Last edited:
JMayo
Silver $$ Contributor
I have no idea what you mean.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.