Benchrest Popularity and Growth

[AlNyhus]

I'm going to just come out and say what it holding me back. It's not the high dollar rifle, or the components or the scopes.

It's the high dollar rests. That's where I draw the line personally. We all have a threshold and for me it's the gun rest. I cannot justify 1k for a rifle rest or even 600 bucks.

Dimner, I want to circle back around to this. Since it's been shown in this thread that a very expensive rest is not needed to compete even at the highest levels, what's your thinking on this now?

Good shootin' -Al

 

[JFrank]

I would suggest a good fitting rear bag as more important then a high dollar front rest.

 

[LHSmith]

Sure thing. Also, keep in mind, this is my understanding of the concept and how it works in the benchrest format.

Efficient and quick rifle tracking from shot to shot. So the shooter can fire off a string (not sure if that's the right term) while the wind/environmentals are unchanged. Which I understand equates to smaller groups and thus better match results.

Once upon a time many SR BR competitors learned to use the rear bag as a means to adjust POA ( AKA "bag squeezers"- yeah the same technique you have been using on hunting rifles since day one). These guys did quite well with simple R.W. Hart and original Bald Eagle tri-pod rests. They also set countless records and earned a horde of Precision Rifleman points. Trick is to find the right bags -both rear and FRONT -properly filled to a hardness that works -only found through hours of practice.

 

[Will Henry]

One thing that helps greatly in generating interest in BR, "F" class, or any other shooting discipline, is a forum like this. The information provided, along with the recognition of the shooters plays a huge role in generating and maintaining interest. Internet forums have taken the place of Precision Shooting, Shooters News, and the other Benchrest Newsletters, and in general, they do a good job of it. The participation of the top shooters and gunsmiths on these forums is extremely valuable.
I used to look forward to my visit to the mailbox when I knew I would be getting my issue of the Benchrest Shooter's news, or Precision Shooting, or Rifle magazine. I could see what was going on across the country and might even see my name in print (bottom of the page, near the back). A forum like this takes the place of that.
Beyond the virtual world though, it is the attitude of the people involved that brings people into any sport or pastime. I often wonder if at times I wasn't a little standoffish, back in the day. I didn't mean to be.
I started shooting BR when it was still in the era of experimentation. Over the past thirty years or so, it has been more the era of refinement (this is not to say there hasn't been a lot of innovation; like tuners, techniques, stock design, etc.). Benchrest is still the ultimate in rifle precision and accuracy. Though that may have limited appeal, the appeal is still there. Great discussion, BTW. WH

 

[Pareto]

I agree, but I think generally it’s subtle and probably comes from what the sport is and the kind of people who are drawn to it. You get some guys who are very overt in their elitism. I know on reflection that I have treated some newcomers without enough sensitivity when I was just trying to be earnest and honest with them in answering their questions.

I don’t think it’s a generational thing or a financial means thing that keeps benchrest small. I think it’s visibility. PRS has A LOT of advertising. I have talked to more than a couple non gun people that had heard of PRS and had a concept of what it is. I have had to explain benchrest to everyone, even competitive shooters from other disciplines.

I think it would be nice if there were more YouTube vids devoted to Benchrest that give tips and show matches in detail. Erik Cortina has been a positive influence in promoting precision shooting. I wish a benchrest shooter (or even a retired one) put out equally appealing, high quality vids.

 

[Dimner]

Dimner, I want to circle back around to this. Since it's been shown in this thread that a very expensive rest is not needed to compete even at the highest levels, what's your thinking on this now?

Good shootin' -Al

Below is a picture of the rest I currently own. Although I changed the bag to a Edgewood model.

My biggest issue is tracking. The range where I shoot, and therefor practice, the target boards/holders are not in line with the benches. I have not found a way to line up front and rear rests in perfect alignment with the target. I hope that windage adjustable front rest will help that, or it's just my inexperience and there is a trick I'm not aware of. It's one of those, I don't know what I don't know types of situations.

So my options:

1) Buy new or used.. Used: something that is like the bald eagle but modified a bit. New: the Protektor Windage Long Range Front Shooting Rest #61. I think it will be a better unit than the bald eagle. However, that is only 6lbs and needs a base plate.
Cost: $600 (Protektor #61 -$375, DIY Base plate and hardware $125)


2) Mod Current Rest. Add a base plate with feet. Greater stability and more weight. Upgrade the top with the @butchlambert shadetree windage rest.
Cost: ~$565 (new top $420 plus base plate and hardware $125).


That's my current thinking. I don't have ages of experience with benchrest, above is what I see as useful and would give me confidence to compete. You guys might have all the confidence in the world to shoot off the rest I currently have with no modifications. I don't and I won't. So an additional $550 on top of all the other thousands I have spent just to play a game? And it's a game that is not played within 3 hours driving radius of me. It's a hard sell.

I have a very hard time spending money for luxuries on myself rather than on something me and my kids could use or an improvement for quality of life (fences, car repairs, home upgrades). I was probably raised wrong. I don't even like spending money on myself for a haircut. I mentioned it back in my original post on this subject. Even $500 bucks for a front rest, is something I'm not sure I can do. I can think of a dozen other priorities. I'm not saying it's rational. But you asked for my thinking

 

[Jud96]

You should be able to find a Bald Eagle base with a Shadetree top for $500 or so. That’s what I started with and it worked well. It’s not as stable, heavy, or easy to use as my Farley, but it works great. If you don’t want a joystick, a standard 3 post Bald Eagle or Sinclair can be had for $300 or so used.

However, if you’re not able to or don’t want to spend the money, then benchrest probably won’t be something you’ll be able to sustain either. Even with me sleeping in my truck, making my own lunches and sometimes dinner at the matches, there’s still the cost of bullets, powder, primers, fuel, and match fees. A couple close matches is $500 in expenses for me. It’s what I enjoy to do, and I sacrifice other luxuries so I can shoot. Obviously it’s not for everyone, and that’s okay!

 

[Rick300]

I think it would be nice if there were more YouTube vids devoted to Benchrest that give tips and show matches in detail. Erik Cortina has been a positive influence in promoting precision shooting. I wish a benchrest shooter (or even a retired one) put out equally appealing, high quality vids.

Here's one that was taken at Sacramento last weekend.

 

[Matthew Schwartzkopf]

If anyone has proven that you don't need a fancy front rest is Gary Ocock. I will try to get a picture of his front rest and rear bag, but he shoots off a basic front rest (like the Caldwell above, but I am not sure of the manufacturer). He is a hall of fame shooter and holds the 300 yard HV world record with a .149

 

[CJ6]

Below is a picture of the rest I currently own. Although I changed the bag to a Edgewood model.

My biggest issue is tracking. The range where I shoot, and therefor practice, the target boards/holders are not in line with the benches. I have not found a way to line up front and rear rests in perfect alignment with the target. I hope that windage adjustable front rest will help that, or it's just my inexperience and there is a trick I'm not aware of. It's one of those, I don't know what I don't know types of situations.

So my options:

1) Buy new or used.. Used: something that is like the bald eagle but modified a bit. New: the Protektor Windage Long Range Front Shooting Rest #61. I think it will be a better unit than the bald eagle. However, that is only 6lbs and needs a base plate.
Cost: $600 (Protektor #61 -$375, DIY Base plate and hardware $125)


2) Mod Current Rest. Add a base plate with feet. Greater stability and more weight. Upgrade the top with the @butchlambert shadetree windage rest.
Cost: ~$565 (new top $420 plus base plate and hardware $125).


That's my current thinking. I don't have ages of experience with benchrest, above is what I see as useful and would give me confidence to compete. You guys might have all the confidence in the world to shoot off the rest I currently have with no modifications. I don't and I won't. So an additional $550 on top of all the other thousands I have spent just to play a game? And it's a game that is not played within 3 hours driving radius of me. It's a hard sell.

I have a very hard time spending money for luxuries on myself rather than on something me and my kids could use or an improvement for quality of life (fences, car repairs, home upgrades). I was probably raised wrong. I don't even like spending money on myself for a haircut. I mentioned it back in my original post on this subject. Even $500 bucks for a front rest, is something I'm not sure I can do. I can think of a dozen other priorities. I'm not saying it's rational. But you asked for my thinking

View attachment 1593508

Shooting buddy has that FR. From watching him shoot the rest/bag rocks back when Shooting.
When he uses mine (Hart base and Edgewood bag Shadetree top) his groups shrink dramatically.
The pebbled texture (front bag) doesn't help either. I talked him into using a dryer sheet between the bag and rifle and that helps too.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Its very true you can go to the top without all the latest greatest gear. Theres some things you have to have high quality but most new guys would be suprised how competitive they can be with basic gear. The youtube channels dont get paid to show that, they profit from promoting the latest gear. Many newer shooters get thier info on youtube and thats why they think it takes 20k to start shooting. My fist rest was something I made. A pos. It did the job. We all like nice stuff and some of it helps on paper. Some doesnt. Thats why mentors are so important, they will tell you what matters, what doesnt, and whats nice to have if you have the extra money.

 

[Matthew Schwartzkopf]

I wish I had some time during the up coming NBRSA Short Range Group Nationals to record some videos of equipment being used and interview the shooters. Maybe I can escape from my duties during the match to get some specific requested content. Any requests?

 

[D Coots]

It doesn't have to be high dollar it just needs to work. That may mean you have to improve it yourself. Increase the footprint, adding weight etc

Sounds like Boyer's loading stuff.....

 

[D Coots]

Evan, SR BR might be dying off, as you can see in this thread there are a lot of old miserable coots that will post nonsense if you spend your hard earned money NOT THEIRS trying to make yourself a better shooter, IMO mid and long range benchrest is doing just just fine and growing.

I resemble that miserable old Coots posting nonsense, and I'm damn good at it......

 

[D Coots]

The come one, come all approach will definitely get more shooters on the line. If the weight were 17lb you would get a whole bunch of LR guys joining in on the fun as well and many might even spin on a PPC barrel for the day.

Regards
Rick

So what's allowed at the Tackdriver?

If you change the rules to make everyone happy you ruin the sport. Also, how many will actually show up at a match if the rules are changed?

How much experimenting was done in the Sporter class after the rule change?

How many will come up with another excuse not to attend?

Just my take on things.

 

[Dimner]

Honestly a mentor is what I really need. And nearby club matches. And my 6br barrel to be back from getting chambered.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Honestly a mentor is what I really need. And nearby club matches. And my 6br barrel to be back from getting chambered.

Whats your local range? I bet this forum can help find a good mentor.

 

[Jud96]

Honestly a mentor is what I really need. And nearby club matches. And my 6br barrel to be back from getting chambered.

I don’t have a mentor I practice with or work with outside of matches, however I have several very good mentors I shoot matches with that have let me borrow tools, equipment, and let me pick their brains and give me helpful tips and information. However, having someone to prepare you for a match would be very beneficial. My first couple matches with my own gear was a mess, I forgot stuff, didn’t have the right things, I wasn’t organized and had a poor work flow between matches. With help from others, and learning the hard way, I’ve since gotten a good kit together and I’m no longer the last guy up to the line after scrambling for 30 mins between matches lol. That’s just one way a mentor could help. I still struggle with bench manors and learning to tune in the changing conditions, most of that I’m learning at matches with tips from the mentors I mentioned or practice sessions on my own. But someone who knows the game can save you time, money, and frustration. Like others have said, you don’t need 20k in equipment to show up and shoot. You can win with basic tools and equipment, having your rifle tuned, bags setup correctly, and knowing when to shoot is the most important things. You obviously need a good rifle and your reloading tools/equipment have to be sufficient, but it doesn’t take the latest and greatest to compete.

 

[jackieschmidt]

So what's allowed at the Tackdriver?

If you change the rules to make everyone happy you ruin the sport. Also, how many will actually show up at a match if the rules are changed?

How much experimenting was done in the Sporter class after the rule change?

How many will come up with another excuse not to attend?

Just my take on things.

As for the Sporter thing, you know who pushed that through, and in the end, even he didn’t even bother with it.

 

[Pareto]

I wish I had some time during the up coming NBRSA Short Range Group Nationals to record some videos of equipment being used and interview the shooters. Maybe I can escape from my duties during the match to get some specific requested content. Any requests?

Start with basics for new shooters. How to work up loads. Full size vs neck size brass. Cleaning or not cleaning. What things to avoid as a new shooter. Minimal practice conditions. How critical is neck turning? Maybe some tips for intermediate experienced shooters? Best calibers to start with for short range or long range benchrest. (Like 6br even at short range just to get used to the process and practice good shooting habits without the added step of fireforming as in 6 ppc. Or maybe how a 223 can be a good way to get into the sport.) Maybe others will chime in.

But certainly suggestions that are a bit more than, buy a full bore comp gun and ammo, just start reloading and start coming to competitions.