Benchrest Popularity and Growth

[AlNyhus]

I had the pleasure of meeting and shooting with @Websurfer and Michelle at this years NBRSA Score Nationals. They are the types of individuals that make BR what it is....fun, competitive and driven to be the best.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Will Henry]

Jackie's comments on rifle tune are really on point. Of course it's also true that you have to be able to point the rifle in order to tune the rifle. It becomes kind of a chicken or egg sort of thing. I can remember a couple of times when my flawed technique overrode the accuracy of the rifle and caused me all kinds of grief trying to get the thing shooting. In the one case I had a very good shooting rifle but I was getting the occasional shot going high out of the group. Not a lot but enough to add a tenth of an inch or more to the group. I was changing seating, powder, primers, everything but my socks and they were on the radar.
A friend of mine wanted to try the rifle and he shot a nice group, about .120. I shot a group and threw one high. He shot another 1/8 incher. I shot another flipper. It finally occurred to me that I might be the problem, and I was.
I squeezed the rear bag for elevation and had gotten into the habit of relaxing my hand as soon as the trigger broke. Consequently, I was building vertical into a system where it didn't exist otherwise. I had to see the rifle proven by one who was not an idiot, in order to trust that the rifle was telling me I was screwing up.
Once I got that figured out, I went on to have a pretty good season. WH

 

[nmkid]

Going out on a limb, but if compared to ASA or IBO archery and you have to shoot against the pro division shooters right off the start most will be intimidated. If there were a rookie class where once you won an agg or yardage, or top 3 couple times move on up.
People don't want to spend thousands of dollars competing against pros when starting out. Short range br is the only sport I know of that runs that way.

Winner, winner!

 

[Websurfer]

We really enjoyed meeting you, competing against you, and making friends with you, Al. I appreciate the tip on the Panda, too.
I got started in short range benchrest many years ago, in the rimfire game. My amazing father got invited to a match, and before long I was joining him. Over the years, went through the normal gear progression (rifles, rests, bags, flags), and learning from so many accomplished competitors. It helped also to have two uncles who were gifted competitive shooters, too. One of them "loaned" me a customized rimfire benchrest rifle, with which I (finally) never felt behind the curve equipment-wise. Also, upgraded my rest from an inexpensive aluminum rest to a full-blown hand-made custom rest (I needed something with a 3" front bag and with more precise adjustments). Learned a lot and had so much fun.
At my gun club, there were a few benchrest shooters who tried to get me into centerfire. I always begged off, as I had two young children, a great but time-consuming career, and lots of responsibilities. I thought I'd never have the time to master the centerfire game.
Fast forward a few more years. I got invited to a local club match, and, since I had a really accurate (mostly) factory .223, figured why not? "Really accurate" - ha! I had ZERO idea at the time what "really accurate" was. Past that was a PRS rifle, and while I did better in the club matches, I was still hovering in the bottom half most of the time (finishing in the top half was so exciting!). A factory 6PPC got me into the middle of the pack, sometimes the upper third or even in a "top 3" finish. Finally, a buddy at the match made me an offer on a custom 6PPC that I could not say no too (plus, I was getting tired of being competitive, but not winning). More equipment, better flags, as budget and time allowed. Starting winning a few matches, and some distances, and having fun and seeing some positive results.
Finally got a 30BR (another offer I could not refuse), even more equipment, loading supplies, more scopes, etc. Oh, and big-time committment to this sport. Michelle and I are loving competing, supporting each other, and continually learning and having so much fun.
Taking my story of how I got into short range centerfire benchrest shooting, perhaps there are some lessons:
1. Invite shooters to matches, especially local club matches
2. Be supportive of new competitors
3. If you have some extra gear on-hand, consider selling it to new competitors and also providing instruction/information/advice
These ideas and lessons aren't unique to me/my experience. Again, while organizations can do things to encourage more participation in our sport, we as competitiors can also lend a helping hand in growing short-range benchrest.

 

[Websurfer]

4. Make new friends. Benchrest has introduced me to so many new friends. Competing with and against your travel buddies and friends, then meeting for lunch or dinner afterwards, is a lot of fun. Having a buddy for sharing long road trips, splitting rooms, talking about all things benchrest, and many things about life itself, is cool. And it cuts some of the expenses, as well. There is a lot of research showing that as us guys get older, our friendship circles get smaller. Benchrest is a great way to make new friends and have a load of fun.

 

[Addley]

I have always believed that any shooting Discipline has a certain degree of difficulty that makes it difficult to master.

With Benchrest, much of it centers around the Rifle. The brutal truth is you will never be any better than the Rifle laying in the front rest and rear bag. You can not shoot sub .200 aggs with a .300 rifle.

If you go to any 100/200 yard match, there is a good possibility that 75% of the rifles on the line are not in a competitive tune. Shooters will gaze at the targets on the wailing wall and say…..”I must have missed that condition, or my bags aren’t right, or whatever,“ when the truth is the rifle simply is not working.

For some reason, this seems to be very difficult for shooters to admit. Just like it is difficult to admit that the new barrel you just got is just an average barrel, or that latest lot of bullets simply are not as good as the last batch. Or the latest gimmick you saw in a YouTube video didn’t help one bit.

Short Range Benchrest, whether shooting Group or Score, is a tough game. I personally believe that it takes a certain amount of continuing dedication that many shooters simply do not possess.
During my 30 years of Competitive Benchrest, I have seen multitudes of shooters come and go. The single most prominent reason is despite buying the very best of everything, they still cannot manage to actually win anything. Discouragement can easily set in.

Many succumb to it.

Jackie…how do you do your tuning? Without being a very good shooter it is a bit difficult in my experience to actually see small changes related to tuning. The first gun/barrel I had just seemed to small no matter what. Since, I have put two new barrels on and they haven’t shot as well (latest is a Krieger 1:13.5 twist). I have not played much with seating depth (I’m maybe .006 off jam), but have played with powder (N133, 29 to 30.4 grains in small increments). I’m currently at the low end 29.3 grains. How would you proceed from there?

 

[jackieschmidt]

4. Make new friends. Benchrest has introduced me to so many new friends. Competing with and against your travel buddies and friends, then meeting for lunch or dinner afterwards, is a lot of fun. Having a buddy for sharing long road trips, splitting rooms, talking about all things benchrest, and many things about life itself, is cool. And it cuts some of the expenses, as well. There is a lot of research showing that as us guys get older, our friendship circles get smaller. Benchrest is a great way to make new friends and have a load of fun.

That circle of friends getting smaller as we age is right on.
So many of my friends that I started out with 30 years ago have passed on. Friends that taught me a lot, were great to hang out with, and were successful in life.

And were fierce competitors.

 

[RGRobinett]

I had the pleasure of meeting and shooting with @Websurfer and Michelle at this years NBRSA Score Nationals. They are the types of individuals that make BR what it is....fun, competitive and driven to be the best.

Good shootin' -Al

Yeah! That websurfer dude is one fortunate chap - Michelle set a bold example of how to react to error & misfortune: SHE, "took it like a man"! Inspirational, indeed! RG

 

[Silo1616]

Yeah! That websurfer dude is one fortunate chap - Michelle set a bold example of how to react to error & misfortune: SHE, "took it like a man"! Inspirational, indeed! RG

Shes apparently a "natural shooter". At our June double header club match, during the group match, thier 6PPC broke after the 3 target, she pulled out the 30BR (used in the morning score match) and ripped off a .180" and .188" on the last two targets. Impressive!

 

[Websurfer]

Al, Silo1616 and Randy,
You are so right about me being blessed and lucky - Michelle is amazing and is a really tough competitor. We love being part of this incredible sport. We did end up winning the Family Feud 2-person team competition at VFS Nationals (see picture below), which was a thrill!
My final post on the original subject of this thread - growing our sport - will be about the cost of short range benchrest.
First, this is an EXPENSIVE sport. No way around that. If you don't have a certain amount of resources, you can't play in this sandbox. Bullets around $.50 each, powder at $50.00 per pound, expensive primers and cases - not to mention the gun, scope, loading supplies, and so much more - it's a money pit. Then throw travel costs, etc., into the pot, and it adds up to a lot. Kinda like owning a horse or a boat (on this note, and because this post is already far too long: at a stables where my children and I occasionally ride, there is a sign in the bathroom which says: How do you become a horse owner with 1 million dollars? Answer: start with 2 million).
There are ways, though, to reduce at least some costs:
1. Buy used
2. Learn to do it yourself (bedding, machining, etc.)
3. Try before you buy (use a buddy's stuff first, and see if you like it before buying - nothing worse than buying something only to find out that you don't like it, it doesn't do what you expected, etc.)
4. Negotiate/trade (you might be able to trade with someone for stuff that you need)
Second, if you have a hobby as an adult, and you're into it, you're probably already spending tons of money. I have a cousin who was a competitive bass fisher for years. He was amazed at how much I spent on benchrest, but then thought nothing of spending $2K on a reel. A buddy of mine who rides long-distance bicycles spends more on "upgraded" pedals than any front rest I've ever purchased. Don't even ask about golf! Adult sports, if you are driven to be competitive, are expensive. No way around that. Unless you're fortunate enough to have unlimited resources, you sacrifice in one place to spend more in another. That's life.
Finally, you don't have to buy everything at once. And, not everything you buy has to be the most expensive. At the VFS Nationals at Raton earlier this year, I was surprised that some of the nation's best shooters use what many of us would call "older" but still effective styles of equipment (rests, bags, etc.). Jackie hit on this point on an earlier post. My take: you can't be "behind" in equipment and expect to win, but at the same time, you can't buy a win either. The cost of entry is a lot easier with a solid older front rest than a $2K latest whiz style. You may decide that, someday, you need that $2K front rest, but for just starting out, an older and less expensive front rest is more than fine. Ditto for a used rifle, an older 36 power scope instead of an 80 power latest model, etc.
As I see it, we are all looking for "synergy" in our gear. A tuned gun that functions as close as possible to "perfectly" with our selected components, equipment, flags, and (maybe most importantly) our technique and skill level. All of this takes time and money. Lots of time and money. It's not for everyone. However, if you love the thrill of victory, and yes, the depths of despair when you drop a point or have a shot that goes out of orbit, all in the pursuit of ultimate accuracy, then this is your game.
Invite someone to your next match. You never know when the benchrest bug will bite!

 

[JFrank]

Jackie's comments on rifle tune are really on point. Of course it's also true that you have to be able to point the rifle in order to tune the rifle. It becomes kind of a chicken or egg sort of thing. I can remember a couple of times when my flawed technique overrode the accuracy of the rifle and caused me all kinds of grief trying to get the thing shooting. In the one case I had a very good shooting rifle but I was getting the occasional shot going high out of the group. Not a lot but enough to add a tenth of an inch or more to the group. I was changing seating, powder, primers, everything but my socks and they were on the radar.
A friend of mine wanted to try the rifle and he shot a nice group, about .120. I shot a group and threw one high. He shot another 1/8 incher. I shot another flipper. It finally occurred to me that I might be the problem, and I was.
I squeezed the rear bag for elevation and had gotten into the habit of relaxing my hand as soon as the trigger broke. Consequently, I was building vertical into a system where it didn't exist otherwise. I had to see the rifle proven by one who was not an idiot, in order to trust that the rifle was telling me I was screwing up.
Once I got that figured out, I went on to have a pretty good season. WH

We can certainly be our own worst enemy’s. in slight contrast to Jackie , long range BR isn’t always the best rifle that takes you to the top ten. Tuning and knowing when ‘not to shoot’ are the top lessons to learn.

 

[Will Henry]

In short range it isn't always the best rifle either, but the rifle has to be good enough to provide feedback. Of course, when I shot in Whitefish, the only feedback you got was when you saw the target afterward. We were shooting blind. I think things are different at Deep Creek, but I haven't shot there yet (except for silhouette). WH

 

[Evan]

I know it’s been talked about many times, but I know 2 guys who gave up on benchrest because of the supply chain issues. They got frustrated with having to wait indefinite times for components to show up and then need to buy and store a large quantity based on their best guess of when it’s going to be available again. It’s a destructive cycle where neither the manufacturer or the customers can get ahead. Those of us who have been at it a while, and have the resources, can and know how to adequately stockpile components but that’s a difficult and often interest killing learning curve for new comers who might have “enough” money to get started but can’t afford to buy scalper-priced components between the arrival of official shipments.

 

[Papamike]

Participation Trophies is the term your searching for.

No, not at all.
I believe part of the topic here is attracting new shooters.
Your lack of experience in helping new shooters in competitions is showing.
I guess you’ve never heard of a factory or junior class either?

 

[Jefferson]

Over the next few months, I'll be restoring my first 6PPC, and I'll show that on my channel. I'll also be working with some of Dad's old stuff, also all needing work. It is my intent to, next spring, shoot in my first BR match in at least fifteen years. I'll be using all the same equipment that served me well 45 years ago. The front rest dates from 1972, from the late Terry McCracken. I'll have to get new bags because these are coming apart. I think I can do OK. WH

what is your channel

 

[JEFFPPC]

No, not at all.
I believe part of the topic here is attracting new shooters.
Your lack of experience in helping new shooters in competitions is showing.
I guess you’ve never heard of a factory or junior class either?

I don't believe the post is directed at either. So once again.....participation trophies. I have an idea I have helped more new shooters in my life than most. One of the things I stress to them is not that if you show up you will get a trophy but if you work hard, pay attention and learn you will over time reap the reward. The placement of the hole you put in your targets shows the result of your investment. No judges hold up a score card, it's you vs the target and requires effort to achieve good results. When trophies are stessed, especially to youngsters , your teaching them they are competing to get that trophy. You should be teaching them to learn the sport and enjoy just doing it. Everyone will not be first but every one can enjoy the process.

 

[Will Henry]

what is your channel

Will Henry's Workshop. I endeavor to show that old age, infirmity, and limited resources needn't limit one's ability to enjoy gunsmithing as a hobby. WH

 

[bichettereds]

Will Henry's Workshop. I endeavor to show that old age, infirmity, and limited resources needn't limit one's ability to enjoy gunsmithing as a hobby. WH

Just subscribed!

 

[seb]

Benchrest shooting/competitions, worldwide speaking, either centerfire or rimfire, is not dying but growing (although not much). Based on my +/- 20 years in the business / rest making.

I would guess that barrel, stock, action makers, and gunsmiths, would also have the same experience.

 

[6.5 forever]

If you could shoot bench rest on you I phone you mite get young shooters.
realistically the young won’t to run and gun that’s why they go PRS.
bench rest has become an equipment war. I shot it years ago now I only shoot F class but if I where younger I would be banging steel

I'm 72 years. Too old for run and gun. I did that with a handgun till I started to feel unsafe. The I went to Fclass. But getting up off the ground is now painful. So I stick to the bench and I still have a lot of fun competing with myself shooting milk jug at 1000.