Benchrest Popularity and Growth

[AlNyhus]

Honestly a mentor is what I really need. And nearby club matches. And my 6br barrel to be back from getting chambered.

A good starting point is to take a hard look at the front rest bag. With the gun set up on the bench and in the rear bag....does the front bag move forward or backward as you slide the gun back and forth?

 

[LHSmith]

Below is a picture of the rest I currently own. Although I changed the bag to a Edgewood model.

My biggest issue is tracking. The range where I shoot, and therefor practice, the target boards/holders are not in line with the benches. I have not found a way to line up front and rear rests in perfect alignment with the target. I hope that windage adjustable front rest will help that, or it's just my inexperience and there is a trick I'm not aware of. It's one of those, I don't know what I don't know types of situations.

So my options:

1) Buy new or used.. Used: something that is like the bald eagle but modified a bit. New: the Protektor Windage Long Range Front Shooting Rest #61. I think it will be a better unit than the bald eagle. However, that is only 6lbs and needs a base plate.
Cost: $600 (Protektor #61 -$375, DIY Base plate and hardware $125)


2) Mod Current Rest. Add a base plate with feet. Greater stability and more weight. Upgrade the top with the @butchlambert shadetree windage rest.
Cost: ~$565 (new top $420 plus base plate and hardware $125).


That's my current thinking. I don't have ages of experience with benchrest, above is what I see as useful and would give me confidence to compete. You guys might have all the confidence in the world to shoot off the rest I currently have with no modifications. I don't and I won't. So an additional $550 on top of all the other thousands I have spent just to play a game? And it's a game that is not played within 3 hours driving radius of me. It's a hard sell.

I have a very hard time spending money for luxuries on myself rather than on something me and my kids could use or an improvement for quality of life (fences, car repairs, home upgrades). I was probably raised wrong. I don't even like spending money on myself for a haircut. I mentioned it back in my original post on this subject. Even $500 bucks for a front rest, is something I'm not sure I can do. I can think of a dozen other priorities. I'm not saying it's rational. But you asked for my thinking

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#1- you do not need a heavy front rest. If you can't return the gun to battery easily then you have a poor set-up. I shot a 10 # 30 BR Hunter gun off an aluminum Bald Eagle rest in matches-standard top, no heavy baseplate without tracking issues once I found the right components and mastered a proper shooting posture and technique.
#2- Again, a coaxial rest is not necessary to shoot SR BR competitively. I would not upgrade the Caldwell. Look for a Hart or similar that was made for and proven in precision shooting.
#3- A good way to line up the rests to target is to place a long dowel rod in the center of the bags and sight down to line up with the target. Next look down to adjust the rifles fore-end so it is parallel to the rest top.

 

[Evan]

My experience has been that new shooters show up with a whole internet of misleading or misinterpreted information stored in their heads and they either have already decided on the way they’re going to do things, or they have decision paralysis about moving forward. In both cases, they often aren’t asking questions of the other shooters there and I’m a firm believer of not offering unsolicited advice.

@Alex Wheeler I didn’t know you gave Gavin from UR that stock. That was a wonderful gesture. Thank you! I stopped watching him soon after that rifle when I was disenchanted by his general approach. It would have been neat to see him take that bench-gun he built to some matches and make videos about it. The coverage was really underwhelming. I was really happy when Johnny’s Reloading Bench posted up videos with his grandpa’s 6 PPC rifle. He even commented that the viewership and support he got on those videos was unprecedented and unexpected - I think our community is keenly interested and supportive of efforts made in our direction.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

There was no "deal" I just hoped he would have used his "platform" to expose people to br.

 

[LVLAaron]

The coverage was really underwhelming

He's really just a product showcase guy.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

He's really just a product showcase guy.

He tried to latch on to the auto trickled deal.

 

[Evan]

He's really just a product showcase guy.

I was really hopeful when he got his PM lathe that he would start putting out more technical and detailed content, but it never came about. Oh well.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I was really hopeful when he got his PM lathe that he would start putting out more technical and detailed content, but it never came about. Oh well.

Do you really want to learn from a student?

 

[Evan]

Do you really want to learn from a studant?

Maybe this is part of our problem these days; thinking anything put on the internet is authoritative or an educational guide in the best way to do anything. This forum included. I enjoy watching people explore things that are new to them; going along for the ride as they learn. Probably why I enjoyed Johnny’s Reloading Bench - he made it clear he was just a doofus with some stuff and not an authority on how to reload but it was enjoyable to watch him.

I would have watched Gavin make things and try stuff out, but he started presenting himself as an authority and what he was demonstrating was not. His big reloading press comparison stands front and center in my mind as an example.

 

[LVLAaron]

started presenting himself as an authority and what he was demonstrating was not.

That started when he started selling $5k rifles that he screwed a barrel onto.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not shaming the guy, he has a decent channel, provides quality content, and obviously has a good business going.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I have seen shooters at matches taking great pains aligning the most expensive bench equipment, trying to figure out why they are shooting .300+ groups. Even to have a mentor help.

You want to say, “why don’t you tune the darn rifle”. But That would be taken as rude.

Assuming you have a Rifle that is mechanically correct t, it comes down to Barrels, Bullets, and Tuning. Then read the wind.

All of the rest is just window dressing.

”yeh, but MegaMan just won the two gun with this rest and bag with a .200 agg”.
Ok, so did the guy that came in 35th shooting .350’s

 

[JFrank]

didn’t know you gave Gavin from UR that stock. That was a wonderful gesture. Thank you! I stopped watching him soon after that rifle when I was disenchanted by his general approach. It would have been neat to see him take that bench-gun he built to some matches and make videos about it.

Should have given it to me, at least I would have use it.

 

[Will Henry]

Over the next few months, I'll be restoring my first 6PPC, and I'll show that on my channel. I'll also be working with some of Dad's old stuff, also all needing work. It is my intent to, next spring, shoot in my first BR match in at least fifteen years. I'll be using all the same equipment that served me well 45 years ago. The front rest dates from 1972, from the late Terry McCracken. I'll have to get new bags because these are coming apart. I think I can do OK. WH

 

[Nealm66]

I’ve just gone to one sanctioned match and it took a lot of time and a lot of effort/organization for a 2 day match. This was a national match and if I remember correctly there was only 36 shooters. There was some discussion about e-targets to speed up the match but I don’t think the accuracy is quite good enough. There were a couple guys that came off a little stuffy and proud of themselves but everyone else was very welcoming and I really enjoyed the whole experience. I didn’t notice any younger shooters. I do see a lot of younger shooters at the local club matches. They are more inviting to hunting and tactical type rifles.

 

[Will Henry]

I’ve just gone to one sanctioned match and it took a lot of time and a lot of effort/organization for a 2 day match. This was a national match and if I remember correctly there was only 36 shooters. There was some discussion about e-targets to speed up the match but I don’t think the accuracy is quite good enough. There were a couple guys that came off a little stuffy and proud of themselves but everyone else was very welcoming and I really enjoyed the whole experience. I didn’t notice any younger shooters. I do see a lot of younger shooters at the local club matches. They are more inviting to hunting and tactical type rifles.

I was at a match in Whitefish, Montana one time. I commented, if someone came around looking for the old guy with a white beard, he'd have plenty to choose from! I was one of them.
When you think about it, while many people are interested in rifle accuracy, there are damn few who are interested in the uncompromising, nit picking, effort required for BR. After all, the format is pretty far removed from practical shooting, right? We can only hope to appeal to younger shooters. When I shot BR, I was a younger shooter. Not real smart either! I was fascinated by the idea of rifle precision. I'm sure there are a lot of young people out there now who have the same interest. They just need to have the opportunity. WH

 

[marchx]

On the PRS vs. Benchrest popularity difference. It is way easier to be a top PRS shooter than top BR guy. Here is an example. Couple of guys that I beat in SR BR switched to prs and one of them is a prs national champ. Shoots sometimes BR matches and still is not winning.
You can be an average reloader and a good (but not exceptional) shooter and be a PRS star. It’s not possible in benchrest. In order to win BR matches you have to be exceptional wind caller, exceptional reloader and a very good shooter.

 

[Leeinmichigan]

If you change the rules to make everyone happy you ruin the sport. Also, how many will actually show up at a match if the rules are changed?

How much experimenting was done in the Sporter class after the rule change?

I recall only two shooters that built stocks and rifles to the experimental SR Sporter class changes. One was Gene Bukys. To my knowledge, he used it only a few times. Most shooters that want to shoot SR BR are going to build or buy used, a 10.5 lb LV rifle.
IMO, the evolution of a shooter that punches holes in targets at their local range with factory ammo to one who wants to shoot registered matches has little to do with competition rule changes.

 

[jackieschmidt]

On the PRS vs. Benchrest popularity difference. It is way easier to be a top PRS shooter than top BR guy. Here is an example. Couple of guys that I beat in SR BR switched to prs and one of them is a prs national champ. Shoots sometimes BR matches and still is not winning.
You can be an average reloader and a good (but not exceptional) shooter and be a PRS star. It’s not possible in benchrest. In order to win BR matches you have to be exceptional wind caller, exceptional reloader and a very good shooter.

I have always believed that any shooting Discipline has a certain degree of difficulty that makes it difficult to master.

With Benchrest, much of it centers around the Rifle. The brutal truth is you will never be any better than the Rifle laying in the front rest and rear bag. You can not shoot sub .200 aggs with a .300 rifle.

If you go to any 100/200 yard match, there is a good possibility that 75% of the rifles on the line are not in a competitive tune. Shooters will gaze at the targets on the wailing wall and say…..”I must have missed that condition, or my bags aren’t right, or whatever,“ when the truth is the rifle simply is not working.

For some reason, this seems to be very difficult for shooters to admit. Just like it is difficult to admit that the new barrel you just got is just an average barrel, or that latest lot of bullets simply are not as good as the last batch. Or the latest gimmick you saw in a YouTube video didn’t help one bit.

Short Range Benchrest, whether shooting Group or Score, is a tough game. I personally believe that it takes a certain amount of continuing dedication that many shooters simply do not possess.
During my 30 years of Competitive Benchrest, I have seen multitudes of shooters come and go. The single most prominent reason is despite buying the very best of everything, they still cannot manage to actually win anything. Discouragement can easily set in.

Many succumb to it.

 

[Websurfer]

Thanks, Jud96 for starting what is a post with lots of responses.
I think, in one sense, you answered your own question with your description of how you got into your first match. We all need to do our part to invite new shooters, give them an opportunity to participate, and then see if the "accuracy bug" bites them.
There are things that can be done by associations, such as a "student" (under 18 years or 21 years or whatever) annual membership rate, introducing different categories to encourage "factory" or "non-benchrest" categories, etc., advertise on sites/channels which are popular with other shooters, etc., but it is really up to us as competitors to grow the sport.
I got my fiancé into benchrest shooting (even proposed to her at a match!), and her and I are hoping to be an example of how benchrest can be a "couples" or even a "family" sport which is fun for all. We use a lot of our "vacation" and "travel" time and $$$ around a number of matches each year. We talk a lot about how we can grow this incredible sport.
With a very (very) few individual exceptions, over 5+ years of benchrest shooting, I have found everyone else to be very open, welcoming, happy to provide suggestions for improvement and happy to share their "secrets" for success. 99.9% of competitors congratulate the winners, are there to support and help other shooters, and are open to assist.
I'll post more in the future on this topic about how I got into short range centerfire benchrest competition, how I navigated the "cost" factor (which, if you add it all up, is substantial), etc., etc.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Every discipline or match should have a class for entry-level shooters and or entry-level equipment!!!

Participation Trophies is the term your searching for.