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Barrel TQ and Headspace Crush Measurements

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In all of my years in the Machine Shop business, I have only encountered one Buttress thread.
About 10 years ago, one of our shipyard customers docked a 6000 hp single screw harbor tug to change out the propeller. The thing was built back in the ‘50’s and had been refurbished and repowered several times.

The propeller shaft was 14 inches in diameter. The prop taper had a 10 inch diameter 2 TPI left hand buttress thread that secured the prop.The shipyard had no idea it was a left hand thread, finally gave up on breaking It loose and ended up cutting the nut, which was around 18 inches in diameter, in half with an arc gouge.

When they called me out to look at it, I discovered that it was a left hand buttress thread.

We ordered a piece of material and I made the nut, which finished weighed around 150 pounds.

It’s the only buttress I have ever cut. I ground the tool to cut the thread from a piece of 1” square Rex-95 tool steel.
In 45+ years of machine shops and heavy industry mantaince I've seen one.
The gland nut on moblie crane boom lift cylender. I helped the mechanic unscrew it because he was having trouble with it. turned out the barrel had a buttress thread and someone had screwed in a gland nut with
a V thread. Was able to recut the threads on the nut to match the barrel.
 
made the nut, which finished weighed around 150 pounds.
ground the tool to cut the thread from a piece of 1” square Rex-95 tool steel.
I just find this very cool.

For perspective, THE largest nut I've ever worked with is the one for a remage barrel.

While I understand that stretching bolts is just part of some industries, I'm just amazed. The power/forces involved!
 
I just got off the phone with Mike. His lead time is down to 5 months on a new build.
Here’s an old thread where Mike pretty much lays it all out.
The guns are one hole guns. Mike doesn’t advertise. He doesn’t need to. He’s got more than enough work to afford to live and have a shop in Beverly Hills. His guns speak for themselves. If you’d like, I can drum up more than a few owners to come and share their experiences.
Once I’m settled in KY, I’ll be commissioning a build of my own.
Regards.
 
What is your measurement apparatus on a lathe that makes this possible? I don’t have anything that resolves below .0001 mechanically and I’m sure i can’t afford anything that is capable of resolving one orders of magnitude greater than that let alone 2 but i’d like to see the setup please!
 
I just got off the phone with Mike. His lead time is down to 5 months on a new build.
Here’s an old thread where Mike pretty much lays it all out.
The guns are one hole guns. Mike doesn’t advertise. He doesn’t need to. He’s got more than enough work to afford to live and have a shop in Beverly Hills. His guns speak for themselves. If you’d like, I can drum up more than a few owners to come and share their experiences.
Once I’m settled in KY, I’ll be commissioning a build of my own.
Regards.

Normally I dont get into this type of thing but sense we are talking about this I will add my input. Its nothing personal at all, strictly mechanically speaking. I also make my living putting out the most accurate rifles I possibly can and I wish everyone in this game the most success possible because its not an easy way to make a living if your doing it right. But, I do have to call out factually incorrect information for the consumer that may not know. And Id happily take a call from anyone that disagrees with my opinions.

I am well versed in truing an action. I have made and sold specific tooling for the purpose because the standard stuff is not up to par. Wiping marker from lug seats is what should happen when its done right. As sloppy as a 700 action is, this is not that tough. With a tight bolt like a Bat it gets more tricky. But I agree with him in general. Not everyone is doing good work and paying attention, but some are.

No mention of ignition. A stock rem 700 ignition is not up to par for 0s and 1s consistently. The majority of action work I perform (on customs) is in the ignition. Yes, I work on every custom action I use.

The barrel and chamber is the big one. I have almost 40k invested in reamers. I have tried a lot of things and continue to do so. Yes, a reamer is very VERY important to accuracy. My guess is that the ideal reamer for that particular factory ammo is by far the biggest accuracy gain over other well built rifles. Keep in mind a reamer has a tolerance allowance of .0005" on diameters, thats if its even in spec. But 2 millionths on misalignment to the barrel? Thats pure BS. Yes, call Krieger, tell them I said that and let me know what they say. The lapped surface finish is more than 2 millionths. A good barrel might hold a groove to a tenth. Half a tenth is 50 millionths. Theres no barrel made to 2 millionths tolerances so how can a chamber be that close? That close to what? Theres no datum point that good to work from. I know the specific tool they use to measure groove diameter, it measures in tenths not millionths. Again, I agree that this matters, I pride myself in my chamber concentricity. But lets be real.

All that said, if you could build the perfect rifle the biggest variable is harmonics. Your talking factory ammo. Constantly changing lots of powder, bullets, and primers. Your not in control of that stuff. This is why rimfire BR rifles all have tuners. You cant tune the ammo so you tune the barrel. The finest rifle out there still has to be fed the right load for the barrel.

I am really not trying to change your mind, I think you should buy one of these rifles. Im sure he builds a good rifle. Just understand the reality of what you can expect from factory ammo. If you dont make it you dont control it, so you cant guarantee it. Most people will blame themselves when a rifle does not shoot as well as they like so those accuracy guarantees are not as risky as they seem.
 
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Normally I dont get into this type of thing but sense we are talking about this I will add my input. Its nothing personal at all, strictly mechanically speaking. I also make my living putting out the most accurate rifles I possibly can and I wish everyone in this game the most success possible because its not an easy way to make a living if your doing it right. But, I do have to call out factually incorrect information for the consumer that may not know. And Id happily take a call from anyone that disagrees with my opinions.

I am well versed in truing an action. I have made and sold specific tooling for the purpose because the standard stuff is not up to par. Wiping marker from lug seats is what should happen when its done right. As sloppy as a 700 action is, this is not that tough. With a tight bolt like a Bat it gets more tricky. But I agree with him in general. Not everyone is doing good work and paying attention, but some are.

No mention of ignition. A stock rem 700 ignition is not up to par for 0s and 1s consistently. The majority of action work I perform (on customs) is in the ignition. Yes, I work on every custom action I use.

The barrel and chamber is the big one. I have almost 40k invested in reamers. I have tried a lot of things and continue to do so. Yes, a reamer is very VERY important to accuracy. My guess is that the ideal reamer for that particular factory ammo is by far the biggest accuracy gain over other well built rifles. But 2 millionths on misalignment to the barrel? Thats pure BS. Yes, call Krieger, tell them I said that and let me know what they say. The lapped surface finish is more than 2 millionths. A good barrel might hold a groove to a tenth. Half a tenth is 50 millionths. Theres no barrel made to 2 millionths tolerances so how can a chamber be that close? That close to what? Theres no datum point that good to work from. I know the specific tool they use to measure groove diameter, it measures in tenths not millionths. Again, I agree that this matters, I pride myself in my chamber concentricity. But lets be real.

All that said, if you could build the perfect rifle the biggest variable is harmonics. Your talking factory ammo. Constantly changing lots of powder, bullets, and primers. Your not in control of that stuff. This is why rimfire BR rifles all have tuners. You cant tune the ammo so you tune the barrel. The finest rifle out there still has to be fed the right load for the barrel.

I am really not trying to change your mind, I think you should buy one of these rifles. Just understand the reality of what you can expect from factory ammo. If you dont make it you dont control it, so you cant guarantee it. Most people will blame themselves when a rifle does not shoot as well as they like so those accuracy guarantees are not as risky as they seem.
Looks like we have wasted a lot of time and money. I couldnt sleep at night if i built the best remington ive ever built and charged $7000 for it. And i sure couldnt sleep at nite if i told somebody they could shoot zeroes or ones with factory ammo in a 308. This is along the same lines as cooper’s test targets
 
Don't kid yourself. Ten millionths is 1/10 of 1/10,000. Your friend Mike is claiming to work to 1/5 of that. As Alex so correctly said, that's BS.
No, Mike is not claiming to work to 1/5 of that. He said Krieger measured one of his chambers at 2 millionths. He did not say his tolerance on concentricity is 2 millionths. Call Krieger and ask them about Tac Ops rifles.
 
I kind of liked this statement from Tac Ops in the link above: "They are made for closer tolerance, and 'exactly' fit the match ammo we specify for the rifles."

The reamer 'exactly' ammo that has a loose tolerance, given it's factory and subject to change based upon wear of the machinery and other things like finite quality control. Maybe a better way to put this is: How do you exactly match a moving target?
 
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I kind of liked this statement from Tac Ops in the link above: "They are made for closer tolerance, and 'exactly' fit the match ammo we specify for the rifles."

The reamer 'exactly' ammo that has a loose tolerance, given it's factory and subject to change based upon wear of the machinery and other things like finite quality control. Maybe a better way to put this is: How do you exactly match a moving target?
Hmmm. It would be interesting to know what variations there are in primers, powder and cases. Does Federal always use the same powder, the same primers?
 
Normally I dont get into this type of thing but sense we are talking about this I will add my input. Its nothing personal at all, strictly mechanically speaking. I also make my living putting out the most accurate rifles I possibly can and I wish everyone in this game the most success possible because its not an easy way to make a living if your doing it right. But, I do have to call out factually incorrect information for the consumer that may not know. And Id happily take a call from anyone that disagrees with my opinions.

I am well versed in truing an action. I have made and sold specific tooling for the purpose because the standard stuff is not up to par. Wiping marker from lug seats is what should happen when its done right. As sloppy as a 700 action is, this is not that tough. With a tight bolt like a Bat it gets more tricky. But I agree with him in general. Not everyone is doing good work and paying attention, but some are.

No mention of ignition. A stock rem 700 ignition is not up to par for 0s and 1s consistently. The majority of action work I perform (on customs) is in the ignition. Yes, I work on every custom action I use.

The barrel and chamber is the big one. I have almost 40k invested in reamers. I have tried a lot of things and continue to do so. Yes, a reamer is very VERY important to accuracy. My guess is that the ideal reamer for that particular factory ammo is by far the biggest accuracy gain over other well built rifles. Keep in mind a reamer has a tolerance allowance of .0005" on diameters, thats if its even in spec. But 2 millionths on misalignment to the barrel? Thats pure BS. Yes, call Krieger, tell them I said that and let me know what they say. The lapped surface finish is more than 2 millionths. A good barrel might hold a groove to a tenth. Half a tenth is 50 millionths. Theres no barrel made to 2 millionths tolerances so how can a chamber be that close? That close to what? Theres no datum point that good to work from. I know the specific tool they use to measure groove diameter, it measures in tenths not millionths. Again, I agree that this matters, I pride myself in my chamber concentricity. But lets be real.

All that said, if you could build the perfect rifle the biggest variable is harmonics. Your talking factory ammo. Constantly changing lots of powder, bullets, and primers. Your not in control of that stuff. This is why rimfire BR rifles all have tuners. You cant tune the ammo so you tune the barrel. The finest rifle out there still has to be fed the right load for the barrel.

I am really not trying to change your mind, I think you should buy one of these rifles. Im sure he builds a good rifle. Just understand the reality of what you can expect from factory ammo. If you dont make it you dont control it, so you cant guarantee it. Most people will blame themselves when a rifle does not shoot as well as they like so those accuracy guarantees are not as risky as they seem.
I agree with all of this and I've never guaranteed results with factory ammo. I simply can't guarantee someone else's product. Especially when known to be of relatively poor quality..even the very best. Factory ammo in a fine custom rifle is like putting unleaded in a top fuel dragster.
 
M
I agree with all of this and I've never guaranteed results with factory ammo. I simply can't guarantee someone else's product. Especially when known to be of relatively poor quality..even the very best. Factory ammo in a fine custom rifle is like putting unleaded in a top fuel dragster.
Mike, check your emails
 
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